[DF] Power Item

[Dwarf99]

I want to include an Artifact from Final Fantasy in a DF game I'm running. I've calculated its value at approximately 106K. DF 1 suggests that I shouldn't fuss too much over the math, so am I supposed to leave it at 40 FP or what?

[vierasmarius]

Keeping strictly to rules as written, yeah, Power Items seem to top out at 40 points. However, as the GM you can assign whatever value you darn well feel like. Based on the loose progression of that table I'd peg $106K as giving somewhere in the ballpark of 50-60 energy.

In fact, looking through DF6: Artifacts, there are examples of Power Items granting more than 40 FP (such as the Mythic Corselet, 45 FP, or Sun Armor, 50 FP).

[the_matrix_walker]

The Energy held in a Power Item is determined by the cost of an equivalent Powerstone, (without the labor cost) using the equation :

(40 * fp + 10 * fp^2)*(54/53)^fp

Do not forget that this is based on the item's value as if it were a non-magical item (The value of it's enchantments don't count).

If it is worth 106K, and you round to 5 energy steps like the table in DF1, then it holds 60 energy as a Power item.

Continuing the table....

Value - FP
$51,000 - 45 Energy
$69,000 - 50 Energy
$91,000 - 55 Energy
$118,000 - 60 Energy
$151,000 - 65 Energy
$192,000 - 70 Energy


But I suppose that is fussing over the math...

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker

The Energy held in a Power Item is determined by the cost of an equivalent Powerstone, (without the labor cost) using the equation :

(40 * fp + 10 * fp^2)*(54/53)^fp

Do not forget that this is based on the item's value as if it were a non-magical item (The value of it's enchantments don't count).

If it is worth 106K, and you round to 5 energy steps like the table in DF1, then it holds 60 energy as a Power item.

Continuing the table....

Value - FP
$51,000 - 45 Energy
$69,000 - 50 Energy
$91,000 - 55 Energy
$118,000 - 60 Energy
$151,000 - 65 Energy
$192,000 - 70 Energy


But I suppose that is fussing over the math...

YOINKED. My players thank you. :-)

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker

The Energy held in a Power Item is determined by the cost of an equivalent Powerstone, (without the labor cost)

Yes, it's the minimum value of an item that could hold that much energy as a Powerstone. It uses mundane item value before any magic. There's some rounding for nice figures, but that's basically it. And the recharge cost is just the price to cast Manastone, since power items are essentially that. All the other weirdness about being able to have just one, use only your own, designate a replacement, charge only in town, etc. is beside the issue of cost, and there for "feel."

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Kromm

Yes, it's the minimum value of an item that could hold that much energy as a Powerstone. It uses mundane item value before any magic. There's some rounding for nice figures, but that's basically it. And the recharge cost is just the price to cast Manastone, since power items are essentially that. All the other weirdness about being able to have just one, use only your own, designate a replacement, charge only in town, etc. is beside the issue of cost, and there for "feel."

Let me ask then, what would you consider a fair cost for a) a recharging power item similiar to how the reserves from Treasure Tables work and b) having more than a single power item at once?

[Dwarf99]

Originally Posted by Ghostdancer

Let me ask then, what would you consider a fair cost for <snip> and b) having more than a single power item at once?

I can't evaluate the other, but this one, I wouldn't allow, just because it's explicitly forbidden.

Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker

<snip>
Continuing the table....

Value - FP
$51,000 - 45 Energy
$69,000 - 50 Energy
$91,000 - 55 Energy
$118,000 - 60 Energy
$151,000 - 65 Energy
$192,000 - 70 Energy


But I suppose that is fussing over the math...

No it isn't :D
Not for me anyway.

Originally Posted by Kromm

Yes, it's the minimum value of an item that could hold that much energy as a Powerstone. It uses mundane item value before any magic. There's some rounding for nice figures, but that's basically it. And the recharge cost is just the price to cast Manastone, since power items are essentially that. All the other weirdness about being able to have just one, use only your own, designate a replacement, charge only in town, etc. is beside the issue of cost, and there for "feel."

Thank you both :D

One other question though: does This One Goes to 11 change anything?

[the_matrix_walker]

Originally Posted by Ghostdancer

Let me ask then, what would you consider a fair cost for a) a recharging power item similiar to how the reserves from Treasure Tables work and b) having more than a single power item at once?

a) Since a recharging reserve costs double that of a dedicated reserve, I would say just halve the effective monetary value of an item before comparing it to the table, or say it requires additional funds equal to it's intrinsic value in order to prepare it as a recharging power item. Either way, it should end up costing double.

b) There is no precedent I can think of, so any answer would be pretty arbitrary.

Originally Posted by Dwarf99

Thank you both :D

One other question though: does This One Goes to 11 change anything?

You're welcome... and I'm not familiar with "This one goes to 11" so I can't help there.

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by Ghostdancer

Let me ask then, what would you consider a fair cost for a) a recharging power item similiar to how the reserves from Treasure Tables work and b) having more than a single power item at once?

I don't believe that (a) has any fair cost . . . it could easily be gamed for "infinite energy," and it's a basic premise of DF that however many points you earn, you must still resupply. Removing that control means turning the PCs into gods, and as the series creator, I'd simply say "no" in print. If you dislike that, call the "spell" a 100-point godlike power similar to being able to teleport when the game normally forbids that (DF 11, p. 37). List it as an Unusual Background.

As for (b), that amounts to being able to turn, say, two $1,100/8 FP items into the equivalent of one $4,300/16 FP item, saving a fair bit of money. The illogical extreme is stuff like 40 $50/1 FP items providing 40 FP for $2,000 instead of the $37,000 usually needed for that much energy. Having all the energy in one place permits bigger single spells, but that's not usually much of a limitation. Thus, I'd say it amounts to giving the spellcaster an open-ended pile of cash . . . I'd price it at 50 points, like Filthy Rich, at least. If it's paid per source rather than for "however many sources I like," I might relent and charge 15 points per extra power item. These amount to Unusual Backgrounds in the vein of Invention (p. B477) or Artifact (DF 6, p. 20).

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Kromm

I don't believe that (a) has any fair cost . . . it could easily be gamed for "infinite energy," and it's a basic premise of DF that however many points you earn, you must still resupply. Removing that control means turning the PCs into gods, and as the series creator, I'd simply say "no" in print. If you dislike that, call the "spell" a 100-point godlike power similar to being able to teleport when the game normally forbids that (DF 11, p. 37). List it as an Unusual Background.

Very cool. Hmmm. Maybe make it a special form of artifact then since it has no real fair cost.

Originally Posted by Kromm

As for (b), that amounts to being able to turn, say, two $1,100/8 FP items into the equivalent of one $4,300/16 FP item, saving a fair bit of money. The illogical extreme is stuff like 40 $50/1 FP items providing 40 FP for $2,000 instead of the $37,000 usually needed for that much energy. Having all the energy in one place permits bigger single spells, but that's not usually much of a limitation. Thus, I'd say it amounts to giving the spellcaster an open-ended pile of cash . . . I'd price it at 50 points, like Filthy Rich, at least. If it's paid per source rather than for "however many sources I like," I might relent and charge 15 points per extra power item. These amount to Unusual Backgrounds in the vein of Invention (p. B477) or Artifact (DF 6, p. 20).

I like it! Thank you. :-)