getting to know someone?

[muduri]

Let's say you have several months to get to know an NPC while you travel together. What skill would you use to figure them out? I'm thinking maybe not the things they're hiding per se - that seems like just Detect Lies - but the places where their behavior and their sense of themselves differ. What would Luke have rolled on to know that Han Solo was the type who would come back to rescue him, or what roll did the son keep missing in The Squid and the Whale to realize that his dad wasn't actually a great guy?

It seems like not Perception and not Interrogation, but is this getting close to Elicitation? Or because it goes both ways - you're just having conversations with people and sharing your own story at the same time - I'm almost tempted to say you could base it on... Carousing? Savoir Faire? Streetwise if it's a hoodlum you're bonding with? Something in there. I think this is strongly related to Social Engineering, which unfortunately I've skimmed at most. But I felt like I was looking for a topic just slightly off from the pages I found in Social Engineering.

So, your thoughts, sugggestions, page references (though a little embarrassing if it turns out to be just that simple!), all much appreciated!

[Flyndaran]

Perception if their persona matches their ultimate actions. But Psychology for when it doesn't. (None of us are fully consistent with ourselves.)

[vierasmarius]

I'd actually borrow the mechanic of Empathy - an IQ roll to get a "feeling" about the subject. This is normally impossible for characters without the advantage, which I'd call a -10 penalty. To compensate, they'd get a bonus for taking extra time. I'd give them a monthly roll at -5 to uncover some new insight into the character, with a bonus or penalty for their level of interaction with them.

[whswhs]

I think it's Psychology (Applied). If you spend an hour assessing them psychologically, a Psychology (Applied) roll gives you +1 to Body Language, and could give you +1 to various other skills, perhaps. If you don't have the skill, you'd roll vs. IQ-6. Taking extra time could get you up to IQ-1 for 30 hours, which I'd call two days constantly in their presence every waking hour, or a week working with them; if you don't have time to study them focally, I'd use the four-for-one tradeoff for learning on the job to let you roll after a month as a co-worker.

Bill Stoddard

[McAllister]

Originally Posted by vierasmarius

I'd actually borrow the mechanic of Empathy - an IQ roll to get a "feeling" about the subject. This is normally impossible for characters without the advantage, which I'd call a -10 penalty. To compensate, they'd get a bonus for taking extra time. I'd give them a monthly roll at -5 to uncover some new insight into the character, with a bonus or penalty for their level of interaction with them.

This looks good. Anyone who thinks the -5 is too steep should be reminded that there are some number of rolls at -5 that are equally likely to succeed as one roll at -0... and I can't be bothered to figure out what that number is, but my point we're talking about a process that takes time, so I'm good with simulating that via many slow penalized rolls.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by McAllister

This looks good. Anyone who thinks the -5 is too steep should be reminded that there are some number of rolls at -5 that are equally likely to succeed as one roll at -0... and I can't be bothered to figure out what that number is, but my point we're talking about a process that takes time, so I'm good with simulating that via many slow penalized rolls.

Actually, -5 looks like pretty mild. They don't say 'The psyche of another person is darkness' for nothing. People not trained in figuring out others are very unlikely to learn the true secret of those others . . . and are prone to making wrong conclusions if they try to hard! I've seen it happen against me many times, I've certainly had it happen with me against others too (but I'm bad at people-figuring, so it's to be expected).
If anything, using the Psychology default for 'normal' secrets and adding worse TDMs for something more hidden seems fair. A Resistance Roll using IQ or Acting on the target's behalf may also be appropriate.

[Michele]

Psychology.

But also note that IIRC, there is a scene in the hangar in which Han tells Luke he won't fight. At that time, Luke would get to roll against Detect Lies and maybe Body Language. That is because that's not a general "reading" of the character's likely behavior based on everything you have come to know and understand of him; it's a reading of what he's stating right then and whether that is true or not to him.

[Not]

Is it a lie if you believe it yourself?

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Not

Is it a lie if you believe it yourself?

The Basic Set doesn't seem to specify this. But in the ordinary usage of "lie," I would say that it doesn't count as a lie unless it's told intentionally. I might conceivably allow a roll vs. Detect Lies at -5 or so to detect something where a character is in denial, as kind of a special purpose substitute for Psychology (Applied).

Bill Stoddard

[Michele]

Originally Posted by Not

Is it a lie if you believe it yourself?

No, it's just a case of you being misinformed. And a lie detector, or a roll against Detect Lies, can't spot that.

But in the case at hand, Solo had to know at some level, conscious or not, at least that he couldn't be so sure that he would just walk away from the fight. So I'd rather define this as a lie that you are telling to others and to yourself too - and as such, I'd rule, if I were the GM, that a successful roll against Detect Lies would spot it.

Er... I hope this makes some sense.