A Matter of some Gravity

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Exallted

It if we apply this to characters in space, one should do away with the the B350 rules for encumbrance in lesser gravities as well,

There are some weight-based effects of Encumbrance. Perhaps those connected to FP loss for long distance ground movement but inertial effects will be major and invariant. Especially regarding Dodge.

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by Exallted

In essence:

In space, there are no DX penalties, you're capped by Free Fall, and encumbrance is always none?

As a general rule. I'd assess encumbrance effects based on mass if I needed to know how fast someone could move by 'jumping' off a surface.

[whswhs]

I wouldn't approach this topic by saying "we're in microgravity" and asking what G-value to use. I would determine the G-value for the celestial body, or the acceleration for the spacecraft, and then check if it fell below 0.1 G.

[Grayscale]

Originally Posted by whswhs

I wouldn't approach this topic by saying "we're in microgravity" and asking what G-value to use. I would determine the G-value for the celestial body, or the acceleration for the spacecraft, and then check if it fell below 0.1 G.

But then, what does it mean under the light of Basic set, to be under the effects of microgravity, specifically?

As far as I can see there's no gameplay mechanic difference from being under under 0.11G and 0.9G, taking the Basic Set into account only.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Exallted

But then, what does it mean under the light of Basic set, to be under the effects of microgravity, specifically?

As far as I can see there's no gameplay mechanic difference from being under under 0.11G and 0.9G, taking the Basic Set into account only.

Well, let's compare 0.15 G with 0.9 G.

If your native gravity is 1 G, your ST is 10, your BL is 20 lbs., and you're carrying 40 lbs., then at 0.9 G your encumbrance falls to 36 lbs., which still counts as Light encumbrance, -1 to Move. But at 0.15 G, your encumbrance falls to 6 lbs., or No Encumbrance, and you have full Move. (Or, conversely, your upper limit for Light Encumbrance goes to 44 lbs. in the first case, and to 266 lbs. in the second.)

Assuming Basic Move 5, your high jump is 20 inches and your broad jump is 7 feet. A running start, with Light encumbrance, gets you to 44 inches, limited to 40 inches, and 15 feet, limited to 14 feet. At 0.9 G, these go to 20/0.9 = 22.2 inches, rounded to 20 inches; 20/0.9 + 24 = 46 inches, limited to 44 inches; 7 /0.9 = 7.8 feet, rounded to 8 feet; and 15/0.9 = 16.7 feet, limited to 16 feet. But at 0.15 G, those become 133 inches, 266 inches, 46 feet, and 92 feet!

There are similar effects on throwing and falling. At 0.15 G, a fall of 20 feet does no more damage than a fall of 3 feet at 1 G.

At 0.9 G, you're less than 0.2 G low; there's no DX penalty. At 0.15 G, you're 0.85 G low; that's -4 to (many) DX-based rolls. There's no effect on IQ or HT.

That doesn't look like "no difference."

[Grayscale]

Originally Posted by whswhs

Well, let's compare 0.15 G with 0.9 G.

If your native gravity is 1 G, your ST is 10, your BL is 20 lbs., and you're carrying 40 lbs., then at 0.9 G your encumbrance falls to 36 lbs., which still counts as Light encumbrance, -1 to Move. But at 0.15 G, your encumbrance falls to 6 lbs., or No Encumbrance, and you have full Move. (Or, conversely, your upper limit for Light Encumbrance goes to 44 lbs. in the first case, and to 266 lbs. in the second.)

Assuming Basic Move 5, your high jump is 20 inches and your broad jump is 7 feet. A running start, with Light encumbrance, gets you to 44 inches, limited to 40 inches, and 15 feet, limited to 14 feet. At 0.9 G, these go to 20/0.9 = 22.2 inches, rounded to 20 inches; 20/0.9 + 24 = 46 inches, limited to 44 inches; 7 /0.9 = 7.8 feet, rounded to 8 feet; and 15/0.9 = 16.7 feet, limited to 16 feet. But at 0.15 G, those become 133 inches, 266 inches, 46 feet, and 92 feet!

There are similar effects on throwing and falling. At 0.15 G, a fall of 20 feet does no more damage than a fall of 3 feet at 1 G.

At 0.9 G, you're less than 0.2 G low; there's no DX penalty. At 0.15 G, you're 0.85 G low; that's -4 to (many) DX-based rolls. There's no effect on IQ or HT.

That doesn't look like "no difference."

My apologies, specially since wrote such a detailed and thoughtful response. I meant to compare "0.11" and "0.09" (meaning the cutoff for microgravity).

Again, I apologize!

[Grayscale]

After a lot of reading, I believe the issue of determining Encumbrance, and thus calculating Move and Dodge in space, can only be solved by not using the rules from Basic Set, and instead mixing the following from Pyr #3-85:

"The only time “weight” truly means weight is when determining how much someone can lift... All other rules – e.g., encumbrance, Ritual Path Magic weight modifiers, etc. – use
“weight” as a stand-in for mass."

Maybe we neet to separate Encumbrance from Carrying Capacity?

Therefore, how about these:

IF YOU ARE OVER 1G:

• Encumbrance and Carrying Capacity: multiply (Carried Weight + Body weight) by (Local Gravity-1). Add this value to Carried Weight and use this to assess Encumbrance.
• Move: use your Encumbrance level from above to assess you Move
• Dodge: use your Encumbrance level from above to assess your current Dodge.
• Jumping: Multiply your jumping distances by 1/Local Gravity
• Throwing: Multiply distance by 1/Local Gravity. Damage remains the same.

IF YOU ARE UNDER 1G (BUT NOT AT ZERO GRAVITY), LIKE IN THE MOON OR MARS:

• Encumbrance: Calculate Encumbrance by the actual Mass of what you're carrying. e.g. in GURPS, the Weight (as in the item's statistics) of what you are carrying.
• Carrying Capacity: Your carrying capacity increases. Multiply BL by (1/Local Gravity)to determine Lifting feats (B353).

○ Thus, if a ST 10 man could carry up up to 300 lbs on his back on Earth, he could carry up to 1,760 on the Moon; however, he would be at Extra Heavy Encumbrance as soon as he went over 200 lbs (B17)

• Move: use your Encumbrance level from above to assess your Move
• Dodge: use your Encumbrance level from above to assess your current Dodge
• Jumping: Multiply your jumping distances by 1/Local Gravity (this may result in faster movement than walking!)
• Throwing: Multiply distance by 1/Local Gravity. Damage remains the same.

IF YOU ARE AT ZERO GRAVITY:

• Encumbrance: Calculate Encumbrance by the actual Mass of what you're carrying. e.g. in GURPS, the Weight (as in the item's statistics) of what you are carrying.
• Carrying Capacity: Virtually "infinite". But by B350, you won't be able to move if carrying more than 15xBL.
• Move:

○ You have Space Flight or Newtonian Space Flight: use its Flight Move.
○ If you're incapable of some type of Space Flight or Newtonian Space Flight your Move is 0. You can still get around by:

§ Using a vehicle: e.g.: a thruster pack, a hand thruster. Use its stats to determine speed.
§ Pushing yourself against a surface: your Move is ST/2, modified by Encumbrance
§ Throw stuff away from you: see Pyr #3-85

• Dodge:

○ use your Encumbrance level from above to assess your current Dodge
○ If you're using a vehicle like thruster packs or hand thrusters you may figure out your vehicular Dodge use that instead if you wish

• Jumping: This is just like Pushing yourself against a surface, above.
• Throwing: Whatever you throw will keep going indefinitely, until it hits something or enters the effects of a gravitational field. Damage remains the same.

How does this sound?

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Exallted

I meant to compare "0.11" and "0.09" (meaning the cutoff for microgravity).

Okay. At 0.11 G, encumbrance is 4.4 lbs., and at 0.09 G, it's 3.6 lbs., both of which round to 4 lbs. Or you can say that Light Encumbrance is respectively 364 lbs. and 444 lbs.

High jump is respectively 182 in. and 222 in., doubled with a running start. Broad jump is respectively 64 ft. and 78 ft., doubled with a running start. A fall of 20 ft. is comparable to 2 ft. under 1 G.

In either case, you have -4 to DX rolls.

However, at 0.09 G, you're subject to space adaptation syndrome. When you enter microgravity, you roll vs. the higher of HT or Free Fall (at -4 if you have Space Sickness). If you fail, you are Nauseated, and at risk of vomiting. You get another HT/Free Fall every 8 hours to recover—but not if you have Space Sickness.

None of these problems arise at 0.11 G. That's a BIG difference.

I hope this is helpful.

[Grayscale]

Originally Posted by whswhs

Okay. At 0.11 G, encumbrance is 4.4 lbs., and at 0.09 G, it's 3.6 lbs., both of which round to 4 lbs. Or you can say that Light Encumbrance is respectively 364 lbs. and 444 lbs.

High jump is respectively 182 in. and 222 in., doubled with a running start. Broad jump is respectively 64 ft. and 78 ft., doubled with a running start. A fall of 20 ft. is comparable to 2 ft. under 1 G.

In either case, you have -4 to DX rolls.

However, at 0.09 G, you're subject to space adaptation syndrome. When you enter microgravity, you roll vs. the higher of HT or Free Fall (at -4 if you have Space Sickness). If you fail, you are Nauseated, and at risk of vomiting. You get another HT/Free Fall every 8 hours to recover—but not if you have Space Sickness.

None of these problems arise at 0.11 G. That's a BIG difference.

I hope this is helpful.

I was helpful, yes. Thank you. I get it now, the cutoff for microgravity is important mostly for the effects under Space Adaptation Syndrome.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Exallted

I get it now, the cutoff for microgravity is important mostly for the effects under Space Adaptation Syndrome.

Yes. From my review of the rules that seems to be the case.