[LT] Brigandine TL question

[Humabout]

In Low-Tech, brigandine armor is listed as TL 4. I'm wondering if there was anything preventing its manufacture at earlier TLs, other than demand. To me, it doesn't seem like it requires large pieces of iron, so could it theoretically be created at TL 2 (or TL 1, if bronze or copper?)

[Joseph Paul]

What defines TL4 and would the 1300s be in it?

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Humabout

In Low-Tech, brigandine armor is listed as TL 4. I'm wondering if there was anything preventing its manufacture at earlier TLs, other than demand. To me, it doesn't seem like it requires large pieces of iron, so could it theoretically be created at TL 2 (or TL 1, if bronze or copper?)

I think historical TLs are set based on actual appearance, not the point where arguably it would have been possible.

It similarly seems to me that mail and plates and jousting mail, in principle, could probably have been produced by a TL2 tech base.

[mhd]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

I think historical TLs are set based on actual appearance, not the point where arguably it would have been possible.

Didn't the brigandine arrive from the east and thus existed there even before that, or was that a predecessor armor that's technically another GURPS category?

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by mhd

Didn't the brigandine arrive from the east and thus existed there even before that, or was that a predecessor armor that's technically another GURPS category?

"The East" was often a different TL from "The West" - various other parts of the planet were also not the same TL. Year of occurrence needs to be compared with location and local TL average at the time.

[The Colonel]

The engineering involved doesn't seem to be much above turning a suit of scale armour inside-out so I don't think capacity is a problem ... I suspect it's just a matter of invention and could probably be done in bronze (or other metals) relatively easily (albiet with reduced effect in some cases).

[mhd]

Originally Posted by Bruno

"The East" was often a different TL from "The West.

If it's a tech issue, not a timeline issue, then yes. Although, TL 4 for the Mongol Empire?

[Humabout]

Thanks guys, that kind of cleared it up for me a bit, I think. It really stood out as something that was of a later TL because ideas hadn't come together, and not because manufacturing hadn't sufficiently advanced.

Along a similar vein, would the cocept of sliding rivets and an arming doublet be possible at earlier TLs, assuming bronze plate armor? I'm just looking at what could be made with TL 1 or TL 2 manufacturing and material technology.

[Anthony]

I have trouble telling the difference between Brigandine and Jack of Plates, so I'd just use Jack of Plates stats below TL 4.

[DanHoward]

Nicolle reckons that the brigandine came from the Middle East. He's wrong. It evolved from the coat of plates which evolved from the armoured surcoat. There is a clear line of progression that had no outside influence. The eastern version developed completely independently and there are clear differences between the two. The 14th century European versions are more like coats of plates than true brigandines but there is a lot of overlap between the two. Some call the intermediary version a corrazina. A true brigandine is very carefully tailored and is the only version that would be suitable for concealment. A jack of plates provides poor protection in comparison. I suppose it could be classed as a cheap quality brigandine.