07-21-2014, 11:56 AM | #31 |
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
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Re: Has anyone done any Melee Weapon Talents?
That's not a weapon master, that's a DX-monkey. It's a reasonably viable character design because there are lots of skills other than melee weapon skills covered by DX, but it still loses pretty horribly to the single-skill fighter in straight-up combat.
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07-21-2014, 11:57 AM | #32 | |
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Eindhoven, the Netherlands
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Re: Has anyone done any Melee Weapon Talents?
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So, by having a wide variety of skills at your disposal, you widen your array of options every time you open a chest full of magical swag. If it turns out that the flaming weapon in there is an axe, that's great, you can handle axes. If it's a lightning kusari, that's great because you can handle kusaris. If it's an arcane javeline of eye-stabbing, then that's great, because you can handle javelins. I'm not claiming this is a viable strategy in all genres. I'm pretty explicitly saying it's not. But DF has particulars where it matters, and those go beyond the distinction between mace and blade.
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07-21-2014, 11:59 AM | #33 | |
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Eindhoven, the Netherlands
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Re: Has anyone done any Melee Weapon Talents?
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The point in DF is not to win a duel against an opponent of similar training and strategy. The point is to handle the weird, rogue-like randomness that dungeons spit up at you, both in weapon choices and in the tactics most effective against yet-another-monster-swarm. EDIT: And it's a specific kind of DX monkey, one who has invested in a strategy of weapon-variety and rapidly switching his tactics. That's like saying a character with medicine, diagnosis, pharmacy, biology, surgery, Hazardous Materials (Biological), Electronic Ops (Medical) and Diplomacy isn't a doctor, he's an IQ monkey who's only useful because that high IQ can also let him buy fast-talk and mechanics. Your point was that this character isn't viable in GURPS. Now you're goalpost shifting to suggest that he is viable, but he's not REALLY the character I suggest he is. A generalist can work, especially in this genre.
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My Blog: Mailanka's Musing. Currently Playing: Psi-Wars, a step-by-step exploration of building your own Space Opera setting, inspired by Star Wars. |
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07-21-2014, 12:04 PM | #34 |
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2006
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Re: Has anyone done any Melee Weapon Talents?
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Last edited by namada; 09-21-2014 at 12:11 AM. |
07-21-2014, 12:11 PM | #35 | |
Join Date: Jun 2013
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Re: Has anyone done any Melee Weapon Talents?
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As for OP, an issue with Melee Weapon Talents is that of defaults. Once you've got your preferred skill up high enough, it's much better to continue raising it rather than try to boost anything defaulting off of it. Let's say you've got Broadsword at an impressive DX+6, for [24]. This gives you Shortsword at (IIRC) DX+4 for free. Want to boost Shortsword up to DX+5? That'll cost [4]. Want to boost Broadsword to DX+7? Also costs [4], but has the side benefit of bringing Shortsword up to DX+5 for free. I'm kind of with Anthony here - [5] may be an appropriate cost for a Talent that covers all melee weapon skills. Toss in unarmed and maybe the various Throwing skills (Throwing, Thrown Weapon, etc) and it's probably worth no more than [10]. |
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07-21-2014, 12:14 PM | #36 | |
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Eindhoven, the Netherlands
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Re: Has anyone done any Melee Weapon Talents?
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My Blog: Mailanka's Musing. Currently Playing: Psi-Wars, a step-by-step exploration of building your own Space Opera setting, inspired by Star Wars. |
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07-21-2014, 01:14 PM | #37 | |
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: South Dakota, USA
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Re: Has anyone done any Melee Weapon Talents?
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Okay, so not quite that frequent, but in a game where combat is not scarce, for my groups and those with whom tend to socialize is was a regular (but not frequent) occurrence. In fact, it was lucky (or boring) if such things did not happen.
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My GURPS Fourth Edition library consists of Basic Set: Characters, Basic Set: Campaigns, Martial Arts, Powers, Powers: Enhanced Senses, Power-Ups 1: Imbuements, Power-Ups 2: Perks, Power-Ups 3: Talents, Power-Ups 4: Enhancements, Power-Ups 6: Quirks, Power-Ups 8: Limitations, Powers, Social Engineering, Supers, Template Toolkit 1: Characters, Template Toolkit 2: Races, one issue of Pyramid (3/83) a.k.a. Alternate GURPS IV, GURPS Classic Rogues, and GURPS Classic Warriors. Most of which was provided through the generosity of others. Thanks! :) |
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07-21-2014, 01:57 PM | #38 |
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
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Re: Has anyone done any Melee Weapon Talents?
In any game where weapon-switching is common, that's because both weapons are covered by the same skill (typically just a generic level-based attack bonus).
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07-21-2014, 02:45 PM | #39 | |
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Charlotte, North Caroline, United States of America, Earth?
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Re: Has anyone done any Melee Weapon Talents?
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First, let's look at defenses: A: Two-Handed Sword Parry of 13, -2 per parry attempt B: Sword Parry 11, Shield Block 12, Brawling/Knife parry of 12 As soon as I pick up any shield with a DB greater than 1, I now have superior defenses to your skill 20 uber swordsman. DB 2 shield makes this better, as I can now Block better than you parry, and then parry a second attack as well as you parry a first attack. You also have no defense against ranged weapons. Attacks: A: 1 attack at skill 20, or 2 at skill 14. Pretty good. Unfortunately, you can't really improve this ability except through combos. B: 1 Attack at skill 17. But 1 point for dual weapon training and I can now attack twice, once at skill 14, once at skill 15. Versatility: a: Can fight in CC at skill 16 or skill 12(depending on his two-handed swords reach). B: Can fight in CC at skill 18, or skill 13. Yes, if your low-tech combats simply involve exchanging attack rolls with defense rolls, skill 20 wins all the time. I can't imagine how boring that has to be.
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07-21-2014, 03:19 PM | #40 | |
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: South Dakota, USA
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Re: Has anyone done any Melee Weapon Talents?
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Keep in mind, I don't think anyone is saying that there aren't many games where switching weapons out is useless, just reminding you that in many it does matter. A universal Melee Weapon Talent priced at only 5 CP/Level is bad in a game where melee combat is rare, but that doesn't describe the average GURPS game I know, where each session usually has one big combat or several smaller skirmishes. There is also the issue of high skill and combat; maybe its because I am still so inexperienced in 4e, but once a character gets past 20, it seems like asking for trouble. In the Basic Set p.286 we read about Reaction Penalties for walking around wearing armor; showing the GM a character sheet where you've got your primary weapon skill above 20, let alone near 30 has a similar effect in my experience, only its the GM and not the local villagers that are worried (well, at first). I am mostly speaking of beginner characters though; if your swordsman that was originally 150 points is now worth 500 points, Skill 30 might be tolerable, but if you wanted your Swordsman to be really skilled... well you know the drill; related Advantages, Skills, and Techniques.
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My GURPS Fourth Edition library consists of Basic Set: Characters, Basic Set: Campaigns, Martial Arts, Powers, Powers: Enhanced Senses, Power-Ups 1: Imbuements, Power-Ups 2: Perks, Power-Ups 3: Talents, Power-Ups 4: Enhancements, Power-Ups 6: Quirks, Power-Ups 8: Limitations, Powers, Social Engineering, Supers, Template Toolkit 1: Characters, Template Toolkit 2: Races, one issue of Pyramid (3/83) a.k.a. Alternate GURPS IV, GURPS Classic Rogues, and GURPS Classic Warriors. Most of which was provided through the generosity of others. Thanks! :) |
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melee combat, talents |
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