Military roleplaying: line troops or special operations?

[johndallman]

I'm playing in a G:WWII campaign, or rather a Weird War II campaign. I've looked around at other WWII and WWI games over the last year or so, and they, along with G:WWII seem to spend a fair amount of effort on a style of game which puzzles me.

This is the infantry squad, tank crew, or bomber crew made of PCs, one of thousands of such groups in the war. This doesn't seem very attractive as a subject for gaming to me. The party has little control over their own destiny, is at very large risk of getting wiped out if the campaign is realistic, and is likely to only see a single theatre of combat.

By contrast, being in some kind of special operations force allows more capable characters and access to better resources while remaining somewhat realistic. Special operations personnel get a lot more influence over what they do and how they go about it, and if they use that capability, can have a decent chance of survival through an extended campaign. They can also plausibly see a wider ranger of challenges.

Like the thread I started about zombies a few months back, there's a style of role-playing whose appeal I don't understand. Can anyone explain?

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by johndallman

Like the thread I started about zombies a few months back, there's a style of role-playing whose appeal I don't understand. Can anyone explain?

Because you want to simulate (and it's definitely a simulationist urge) the experience of an ordinary (or just slightly beyond ordinary) solider, sailor, airman or marine in a reasonable approximation of historical reality. Your inspiration is Band of Brothers or Das Boot rather than Inglorious Basterds or The Dirty Dozen.

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Because you want to simulate (and it's definitely a simulationist urge) the experience of an ordinary (or just slightly beyond ordinary) solider, sailor, airman or marine in a reasonable approximation of historical reality.

OK. Is the fun purely from the simulation, or is there some element of commemoration or identification with the past?

Your inspiration is Band of Brothers or Das Boot rather than Inglorious Basterds or The Dirty Dozen.

Um. I may not be understanding you fully here. My sight is poor enough that I do not watch films or TV except under exceptional circumstances, because they're really hard work. I sold my TV when my watching hours fell to single figures per year, 20 years ago.

Looking at the Wikipedia entries, Inglorious Basterds and The Dirty Dozen seem like pure Hollywood views of special operations, rather than realistic ones. Band of Brothers makes rather more sense as a game setting, but seems to get a lot of PCs killed, and is confined to a single theatre. For Das Boot, I read the book; the suffering-to-action ratio seems rather high, and the only person with much freedom of action is the captain.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by johndallman

Looking at the Wikipedia entries, Inglorious Basterds and The Dirty Dozen seem like pure Hollywood views of special operations, rather than realistic ones.

A realistic historical treatment of Spec Ops isn't going to do what you want either. There were only a handful of big Special Operations in the war, and very few units did more than one. Most Spec Ops units were reorganized as regular infantry by the end of the war.

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

There were only a handful of big Special Operations in the war, and very few units did more than one. Most Spec Ops units were reorganized as regular infantry by the end of the war.

Ah, you're thinking about US forces. The British had a lot more kinds of "special forces", and were using them earlier. There's also no reason an operation has to be large to make a good scenario; it's easier to insert small fictional ones than large ones.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by johndallman

Ah, you're thinking about US forces. The British had a lot more kinds of "special forces", and were using them earlier. There's also no reason an operation has to be large to make a good scenario; it's easier to insert small fictional ones than large ones.

I seriously suspect that even for units like the No. 11 Commando very few of the same individual operators were involved in the kinetic engagements of more than one or two operations. In real life people get rotated out, promoted up to staff positions, wounded or killed before they are in more than a couple of ops like that. Besides even the most used Commandos only gives you North Africa and Europe. You'd need a pretty rip-roaring thing like Marvel Comics' Howling Commandos to get the same operators in every theater pf war.

[Whitestreak]

I read the original post, and I think what you're asking is why play a squad of infantry or the crew of a single vehicle instead of playing a Special Ops unit?

As has been pointed out, very few historical Spec Ops units of WWII had multiple operations featuring the same troops. Beyond the possibility of the troop getting killed, wounded enough to keep from returning to action or being captured, Spec Ops requires:

Extensive training. In addition to going over the op on a model (which requires extensive recon to prepare, as well as the actual time to build the model), the unit will train on full scale mock-ups, in order to gain the timing needed to succeed. Sometimes, they will be extensive or they will be something like wood frames or even tape on a hangar floor.

Supply. In addition to the normal gear each trooper may carry, the specialized equipment needed for the particular op needs to be gathered or made. This includes, but is not limited to, special weapons, explosives or vehicles.

Manpower. Sometimes, the one guy who knows the most about the target is either involved in something else or is a long ways away. Travel time or priorities will have to be allowed for.

Transportation. The troops need to get to the target, and, hopefully, retrieved in some way. The transportation needs to be located, arranged for, supplied with its needs and crews, delivered and hopefully trained in their roles.

Coordination. In modern times, many Spec Ops have been carried out in nominal peace time. In WWII, the above basic requirements are going to face competetion from many, many other operations or even theaters. Someone will have to make the decision to plan the op. Then the plan will get modified. Then higher command will have to sign-off on the plan. Then all the coordination efforts will have to be completed.

All this could, and did, takes weeks, months and even years. Operation overlord, for example, took over two years of intensive planning combined with coordination of personnel, supply, transportation, weather examination and prayer to land the troops in Normandy on that June morning.

In comparison, the squad or vehicle crew is most akin to the typical RPG party of PCs. They get together, they have missions or objectives and maybe they survive to V-E or V-J day. Also, I think GI Joe, Tommy Atkins or Ivan appeals to the idea that these everyday people carried out their duties despite everything against them.

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by Whitestreak

I read the original post, and I think what you're asking is why play a squad of infantry or the crew of a single vehicle instead of playing a Special Ops unit?

More precisely, "why play regular joes, rather than a unit that gets more variety?"

Also, I think GI Joe, Tommy Atkins or Ivan appeals to the idea that these everyday people carried out their duties despite everything against them.

That's the point I'm really after. Thanks.

[RyanW]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Besides even the most used Commandos only gives you North Africa and Europe.

And really, if you use something like the US 1st or British 50th infantry divisions, you've already got all that.

[rogersd]

Why not play in China-Burma-India? You can fight the Japanese, take part in jungle warfare, experience the deep raids of the Chindits and take part in the building of the Ledo Road. The commando style raids of Merrill's Marauders against Japanese airbases in Burma. Throw in the Flying Tigers and the Chinese Civil War and there is lots for any group PCs to experience and you don't have to worry about too much familiarity on the part of your players with the actions taking place.

Dave.