Wall Innate Attack - Encase the target?

[RicoZaid]

Is it possible to create an Innate Attack + Wall (60%) to encase a target?

How much area to encase a normal size person?

Thanks!

Here's what I'm running:
Force Wall (Innate Attack: Crush) 18
No Wounding, -50%; no die roll 2 points/level, +0%;
Wall, +60%; Persistent , +40%; Area of Affect, 4
yards, +100%; No Blunt Trauma, -20%; Range 5x,
+20%; No Knockback, -10%; Hovering, +10%; Magic,
-10%. [87]

[Varyon]

What you're looking for is the Binding Advantage, not some version of Innate Attack.

[Kelly Pedersen]

Originally Posted by Varyon

What you're looking for is the Binding Advantage, not some version of Innate Attack.

I'd actually disagree, at least partially. While you can't use Innate Attack with Wall to hold someone immobile (that is, indeed, the realm of Binding), I don't see why you couldn't use a Wall to create a sphere with a person inside. They'd be able to move about within the sphere, attack it, and so forth, but the Wall can be created enclosing them, at least.

[RicoZaid]

How much area to encase a normal size person?

I get 1x3x4 yards because of the AoE advantage (+100%). Is that correct?

[RicoZaid]

Originally Posted by Hellboy

I don't think so. Wall (B109) says:

three-yard-long by one-yard-wide wall per yard of radius in your area...

While Wall is based on AE, it basically just replaces it, because it creates a wall 3x longer than the dimension of area.

Awesome math skills.

Does the wall advantage create 3 one yard cubes? Then added AoE multiples the number of cubes?

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by RicoZaid

So with the 12 yards of wall I have I could fully encase 2 adjacent people before they were hit by an attack?

If you don't need to shield them from above, you'd only need 8 yards of Wall to shield them. To do it from above as well, I'd require 18 yards - 8 hexes for the base, 8 hexes on top (basically each hex of Wall is double height), then 2 hexes above the characters.

Originally Posted by Hellboy

three-yard-long by one-yard-wide wall per yard of radius in your area

I missed that, and actually thought it gave you the same number of affected hexes as you would normally have for your Area Effect, so good catch there.

Originally Posted by Hellboy

We are given 2 dimensions here, 1 yard by 3 yards is 3 square yards. You can also look at that as 3 feet by 9 feet is 27 square feet. It is effectively just described in 2 dimensions. Which dimensions you label terms like length, width, height, thickness, depth, etc. doesn't really matter.

I don't think Wall is meant to work like that, even the +60% version. Length, width, and thickness are pretty well interchangeable terms, but height is a horse of a different color. At least, that's how I interpret it, but the fact we are only given two dimensions does throw a wrench into handling things.

Honestly, this thread is causing me to wonder several things about Wall, so I think I'll start a new thread to ask those, rather than derail this one.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by Hellboy

Area Effect and Wall do nor have a height.

Length and Width are terms you will generally only see when a 2D object is on the ground.

But this is GURPS, and while a typical battlemap only shows things in 2 dimensions, the world it takes place in has 3. Area Effect and Wall must have a height, but the text fails to explicitly define them.

Originally Posted by Hellboy

For a standup wall, length and width would be uses interchangeable, as would thickness/depth.

Agreed, at least with the +60% version (the +30% one I think can only make a straight wall that is 1 yard wide/thick/deep and 3 yards per yard of nominal radius long).

Originally Posted by Hellboy

There isn't really anything special about height here. A wall doesn't even have to go straight up. You can make a 45 degree wall for example.

Even if we don't call any of them height, a 45-degree wall still has 3 dimensions to it - a length, a width, and a thickness. The text only defines 2.

Incidentally, I went ahead and made that thread. It can be found here.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen

I'd actually disagree, at least partially. While you can't use Innate Attack with Wall to hold someone immobile (that is, indeed, the realm of Binding), I don't see why you couldn't use a Wall to create a sphere with a person inside. They'd be able to move about within the sphere, attack it, and so forth, but the Wall can be created enclosing them, at least.

I may have been too hasty - I simply assumed the intent was to create an effect to bind the foe, in which case Binding is the way to go, but walling someone in should probably be an option as well. Unfortunately, I can't find anywhere in the books that defines the height of a Wall created by IA, if stacking is an option, or if you can do a scheme to place a Wall suspended between other Walls. Going with how GURPS often works, I'll assume 4-yard tall Walls (4 yards is the height of a standard hex; no, I don't get it either).

Basically, what you'll need is to have the +60% version of Wall (the +30% one probably just lets you build a straight one that's only 4 yards tall), then fill up each hex surrounding the target. You'll stack another Wall on top of those, then fill the area between. Note this creates a dome, not a sphere - you'd have to create the Wall in the ground, which I don't think is an option.

[Kelly Pedersen]

I agree that the default height for a Wall should be 4 yards. Personally, I think the +60% version of Wall should be enough to potentially trap someone with just one use, provided it's long enough - it says you can "form it into any shape you choose" at that level, and I think that's enough to allow you to reshape it into a circle, effectively. I would definitely require a big enough Wall to encircle the target without touching them, though. I think, for a standard human, that's going to require a 2-yard radius, large enough to make a 6-yard long wall. A single 1-yard radius Wall isn't quite enough to encircle a standard 1-yard hex.

Also, some can try to dodge out of this sort of thing as you cast it, with a Dodge and Drop - against a six-yard-long Wall, which effectively circles one hex, I'd give anyone a chance to dodge out, and even a wider circle could still potentially be dodgeable if someone had more than a 1-yard Step, thus allowing a longer Dodge and Drop.

[RicoZaid]

Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen

I think, for a standard human, that's going to require a 2-yard radius, large enough to make a 6-yard long wall. A single 1-yard radius Wall isn't quite enough to encircle a standard 1-yard hex.

Cool.

So with the 12 yards of wall I have I could fully encase 2 adjacent people before they were hit by an attack?

It's hard for me to visualize the math without hexes.

I'd like to be able to save a crowd of people so maybe I'll drop the DR and get more area.

Thanks!