Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-01-2018, 12:44 AM   #41
Daigoro
 
Daigoro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Meifumado
Default Re: GURPS DF / DFRPG Random Dungeon Generator

Quote:
Originally Posted by zuljita View Post
Do you have any suggestions on how that could be output in a useful way?
Presuming each room itself is level, just have a faint index number next to the room giving the elevation or depression figure.
__________________
World Wikis:
Cyberpunk: Duopoly Nation
Fantasy: Dominion Cross
Space Opera: Behind the King's Eclipse
Steampunk: Colonial Steam
Daigoro is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2018, 10:14 AM   #42
Rasputin
 
Rasputin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA
Default Re: GURPS DF / DFRPG Random Dungeon Generator

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daigoro View Post
Presuming each room itself is level, just have a faint index number next to the room giving the elevation or depression figure.
Damn, that's clever. A lot of code, surely, but clever.

Is there any way to make the dungeon monster output NOT be so CER-based? This goes back to classic D&D dungeons: the top level is filled with low-value loot and weak monsters, and both the loot and the monsters get more powerful as you go down. There needs to be a variety of power levels even in the same level too. That includes push-over encounters as well as boss encounters, the former of which look almost absent (at least when I try to generate dungeons) and the former of which are common. The opposite is more normal.
__________________
Cura isto securi, Eugene.

My GURPS blog.
Rasputin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2018, 09:17 AM   #43
Bruno
 
Bruno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Canada
Default Re: GURPS DF / DFRPG Random Dungeon Generator

If you want to change the difficulty for the next level, change the CER.

There is a wide spread of difficulty being generated for encounters - what is NOT done is saying 'OK, we're going to have 10 encounters for this level, so since 60% of encounters have to be easy, we will make 6 encounters easy'.

Instead, there might be a 60% chance of easy encounters, but that chance is rolled for each encounter independently. As we all know, probability is not a rule - you could have all ten encounters to come up as boss fights.

Each room sets up its own encounter independently, with no knowledge of other rooms.
__________________
All about Size Modifier; Unified Hit Location Table
A Wiki for my F2F Group
A GURPS blog
Bruno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2018, 09:45 AM   #44
Daigoro
 
Daigoro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Meifumado
Default Re: GURPS DF / DFRPG Random Dungeon Generator

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rasputin View Post
Damn, that's clever. A lot of code, surely, but clever.
What might be more handy, what with spells like Shape Air and Shape Earth being popular, is a little data box for all a room's dimensions- height, width, length, floor area and volume.
__________________
World Wikis:
Cyberpunk: Duopoly Nation
Fantasy: Dominion Cross
Space Opera: Behind the King's Eclipse
Steampunk: Colonial Steam
Daigoro is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2018, 10:33 AM   #45
Rasputin
 
Rasputin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA
Default Re: GURPS DF / DFRPG Random Dungeon Generator

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno View Post
Instead, there might be a 60% chance of easy encounters, but that chance is rolled for each encounter independently. As we all know, probability is not a rule - you could have all ten encounters to come up as boss fights.
After checking with two colossal dungeons, I can safely say that there is not a 60% chance of an easy encounter. Frex, I just generated a colossal dungeon with 77 rooms and 42 encounters. Standard 125 CER party. Of those 42 encounters, only 4 had CERs below the party's 125, and none of them were much below that (lowest was 100).

What's the algorithm to determine if a room is occupied or trapped? For that dungeon, I got 77 rooms, 42 with monsters, and 15 with traps. I try this a second time, I get 73 rooms, 37 with monsters (and 6 with CERs below 125), and with 18 traps. Third time, 204 rooms (switching to small rooms), 106 with monsters (6 with CERs below 125), 50 with traps. (Is there something to make sure monsters actually fit in the rooms? The last dungeon generated a 50 ft. by 30 ft. room with two small cold dragons as well as two vampires, though I'm sure the latter two would be in coffins and not taking up much space. That's tight.)

That suggests to me that half of all rooms will have monsters, and about 20-25% will have traps. About a tenth of all encounters will have total monster CERs below the party average, which is awfully low, and even many of them are only a bit below. I think I generated only 1 or 2 that had half or less of the party CER. Dungeon crawls in these dungeons are going to be incredibly lethal, with loads of tough encounters and few empty rooms in which to try to rest up.

Incidentally, a bug:

"Monsters: CER: NaN; NaN x undefined (Oops p0, undefined pundefined)"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daigoro View Post
What might be more handy, what with spells like Shape Air and Shape Earth being popular, is a little data box for all a room's dimensions- height, width, length, floor area and volume.
Like this?

"Description: This room is 30 feet wide and 50 feet long. There is a ceramic idol (8" tall). There is a table, large. There is a loamy smell."

Aside from the height not being there, I'd say that's enough. (Why are dimensions in feet instead of yards?) The volume and area aren't going to come up enough in a game to be really worth it.
__________________
Cura isto securi, Eugene.

My GURPS blog.
Rasputin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2018, 10:42 AM   #46
zuljita
 
zuljita's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Default Re: GURPS DF / DFRPG Random Dungeon Generator

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rasputin View Post
Dungeon crawls in these dungeons are going to be incredibly lethal, with loads of tough encounters and few empty rooms in which to try to rest up.
I have about 135 hours of GM time using this (and previous versions of it). The first few fights with each group were pretty dangerous until PC's got their tactics under control. After that, my players did well enough tactically to make even bosses a slog but not extremely dangerous in general. I'm looking at ways to increase CER without adding lots more monsters now because my players just aren't challenged.
__________________
Running 3 GURPS games: DFRPG, Supers and a weird Evil Hogwart's (ish) game.
Check out my blog: Dungeons on Automatic
zuljita is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2018, 11:03 AM   #47
Bruno
 
Bruno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Canada
Default Re: GURPS DF / DFRPG Random Dungeon Generator

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rasputin View Post
After checking with two colossal dungeons, I can safely say that there is not a 60% chance of an easy encounter.
My appologies for not being clearer, but I said "might be" as in "I have no idea what the number is, I'm on my phone and am using a number as an example".

Room population is held in a table, which is an external data file and can be modified - just download it and have a look. I've put as MUCH as possible in user configurable files, including the distribution of encounter difficulty.
__________________
All about Size Modifier; Unified Hit Location Table
A Wiki for my F2F Group
A GURPS blog
Bruno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2018, 11:08 AM   #48
Bruno
 
Bruno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Canada
Default Re: GURPS DF / DFRPG Random Dungeon Generator

I feel the need to point out here that this was designed to be a download-and-run-at-home program, not really as a webapp.

The really nitty-gritty configuration is done in the data files, not through the dropdowns, because I could slowly go insane trying to add enough UI for the ten gazillion items you need to tweak. Well, insaner.

As a webapp, these things are only exposed by the person hosting the app. If you download it yourself (remember, it doesn't require anything special-er than a web browser) you can have full control over the factors I put into data files, which was as much as I could possibly figure out how to do.
__________________
All about Size Modifier; Unified Hit Location Table
A Wiki for my F2F Group
A GURPS blog
Bruno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2018, 01:02 PM   #49
Celti
 
Celti's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: USA, Arizona, Phoenix
Default Re: GURPS DF / DFRPG Random Dungeon Generator

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno View Post
The really nitty-gritty configuration is done in the data files, not through the dropdowns, because I could slowly go insane trying to add enough UI for the ten gazillion items you need to tweak. Well, insaner.

As a webapp, these things are only exposed by the person hosting the app. If you download it yourself (remember, it doesn't require anything special-er than a web browser) you can have full control over the factors I put into data files, which was as much as I could possibly figure out how to do.
You know, it shouldn't be too hard to write a small chunk of UI that allows "uploading" replacement datafiles to blob storage and then sourcing those instead of the default datafiles — as an alternative to exposing all the individual fiddly bits within said datafiles.

Lemme get breakfast and caffeine and then I might huck a PR in your general direction...
__________________
In civilizations without boats, dreams dry up, espionage takes the place of adventure, and the police take the place of pirates.
—Michel Foucault, Of Other Spaces in Architecture
Celti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2018, 01:35 PM   #50
ericbsmith
 
ericbsmith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Binghamton, NY, USA. Near the river Styx in the 5th Circle.
Default Re: GURPS DF / DFRPG Random Dungeon Generator

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno View Post
I feel the need to point out here that this was designed to be a download-and-run-at-home program, not really as a webapp.

The really nitty-gritty configuration is done in the data files, not through the dropdowns, because I could slowly go insane trying to add enough UI for the ten gazillion items you need to tweak. Well, insaner.

As a webapp, these things are only exposed by the person hosting the app. If you download it yourself (remember, it doesn't require anything special-er than a web browser) you can have full control over the factors I put into data files, which was as much as I could possibly figure out how to do.
Most people aren't programers and don't feel comfortable messing around with javascript files. Even for people who are programmers, just randomly fiddling with somebody else's code can be difficult, especially if it's not well documented inside the code (and looking over all of the files in the data folder, which I presume are the ones you mean by "data files," they seem about as well documented as most of my code in my various projects are - that is, not at all). Most people just feel more comfortable if they can enter a number or setting in a drop-down menu in a UI and hit Go.
__________________
Eric B. Smith GURPS Data File Coordinator
GURPSLand
The future keeps telling us what the past was about. You make the past mean different things by what you do with the time that comes after.
ericbsmith is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
dungeon fantasy, dungeons, random dungeon, utility

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:42 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.