Ninja Stealth Assassination

[zorg]

I've been playing Tenchu: Wrath of Heaven these days, and I started wondering. Is it possible in Gurps to sneak up to someone and assassinate him, dealing insta-death?

I'm aware that the easiest way would be a GM call: if the character successfully sneaks up to the target and successfully makes his attack - and if the target is cannon fodder - then one could declare the target killed. But that's not what I'm looking for.

See, suppose a ST 10 guy (let's call him Fred) sneaks up on someone, holding a large knife. He succeeds with Stealth, he gets a surprise attack. The target may not dodge, and let's assume that any attack Fred chooses will hit (even if aimed at the left nostril or whatever). The target is also unarmored.

Option #1: Fred takes AoA: Double, going for the throat. He deals 1d-2 cut (swing-2 cut) with each attack, which averages to 3 damage (2x1,5). This damage is then doubled (Hit Location) to 6 damage. Not very impressive.

Option #2: If Fred takes AoA: Double and stabs the Vitals, he'll deal again 2x1,5 damage (thrust imp), tripled for Hit Location. That's 9 damage total. Again, this won't take an average target below zero HP.

If Fred chooses AoA: Strong instead, this won't change much. In the first example, damage changes to (1d-2+2=3,5 damage; x2 Hit Location) 7 points, in the second example, damage changes to (1,5+2; x3) 10,5. Still not really dangerous.

None of these attacks seems to kill the target - but the setup (average guy with large knife, surprise attack, hit location) should indicate otherwise. Esp. Option #1 looks really disappointing to me - you get your throat cut for mere 6 damage?

Am I missing something?

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by zorg

I've been playing Tenchu: Wrath of Heaven these days, and I started wondering. Is it possible in Gurps to sneak up to someone and assassinate him, dealing insta-death?

Depends on the weapon you have. With average strength and a knife, it's very unlikely, but ninja assassins aren't average. With 11 ST, weapon master, and knife at above DX, damage is 1d+1; attack twice to the vitals and that's an average of 21 points of damage.

None of these attacks seems to kill the target - but the setup (average guy with large knife, surprise attack, hit location) should indicate otherwise. Esp. Option #1 looks really disappointing to me - you get your throat cut for mere 6 damage?

Am I missing something?

GURPS, like most RPGs, is designed for somewhat lower than realistic lethality. Other than that, taking someone out with one hit with a knife is actually very difficult.

[Der Wanderer]

I'm no expert on this, since we primarly use Combat Lite...

Anyway, the attack to the throat with AoA Strong does 7 damage, that is a major wound. The guy will faint (HT roll for major wound) and bleed to death in no time (No ideas about the rules here). I have no practice in slitting throats but that seems realistic...

[zorg]

Major Wound is a good one! Knockdown is in fact at -5 (Major Wound to the vitals), and failure by 5+ means unconsciousness. With HT10 and an average die roll of 10-11, that means - usually - KO and severe bleeding. Even a simple failure means knockdown + Stun. The target can then be dealt with.

I knew I was missing something :) Thanks!

Originally Posted by Der Wanderer

I have no practice in slitting throats...

After having almost finished Tenchu, this isn't true for me :)

[runarm]

This is how I would do it in game terms:
What you should do is sneak up on the target and do an all-out attack, starting with a grapple and then a stab into the throat averaging 2-4 pts of damage. Then leave the knife in there.
Given that this is a surprise attack then the target may be mentally stunned and even if not he may still have less speed than the attacker, allowing the attacker to continue. At worst he will still have a 2-4pt penalty to all actions on his round.
The attacker then does another AOA, this time with bonus to damage, as he rips the dagger across the throat. This would do an average of 6-8 pts of damage, which, if the target is as average as the attacker, is a major wound which will stun the target and let you finish him off.
In the real world he'd of course be dead or near-dead by now, but in game terms he will have to lose a bit more HP before he's reliably dead. A repeat of the previous action or something similarly violent should take care of that for you.
Throat slitting as a reliable method of killing doesn't work in GURPS unless you use the bleeding rules, and even then it's not reliable.
An alternative is to do a grapple and then an impaling attack to the vitals, doing 3-6 pts of damage on the first round and then 9-12 on the second. This may of course not work since the target is more likely to have DR over the vitals than the throat.

R.

[roguebfl]

Originally Posted by zorg

Option #1: Fred takes AoA: Double, going for the throat. He deals 1d-2 cut (swing-2 cut) with each attack, which averages to 3 damage (2x1,5). This damage is then doubled (Hit Location) to 6 damage. Not very impressive.

Which Hit location?

Well you math is a little off 1d-2 average damage is (3.5 -2) x 1.5, or 2.25 double four Neck gives you 4.5. Not Quire a Magor wound [5 for the averge person]

But simple change from a cutting attack to a Impale for x2 [Stab don't slash] to the Vitials and you get a nice x3. so we become 1d-2 x2 [(3.2-2) x 2 = 3]
then Trippled for location [3 x3 = 9], Which is Definatly a Major wound.

But not A Major Wound is enough to redend some Uncontouse. and This is only Average Damage. Min Damage is 1 x2 x3 of 6, which is Still Enough to fource a Major Wound Roll.

[zorg]

Originally Posted by runarm

starting with a grapple

Why start with a grapple? I mean, the target will probably be stunned or unconscious if I choose an AoA, so grappling shouldn't be necessary. Right?

To continue the attack for another turn is a good idea, though. Esp. since the special effect of AoA: Double could very well be "leaves the blade in, twists and moves it." That would nicely simulate what Rikimaru does (and his moves probably *do* take 2 secs).

EDIT:

Originally Posted by roguebfl

Well you math is a little off 1d-2 average damage is (3.5 -2) x 1.5, or 2.25 double four Neck gives you 4.5.

Hit Location: Neck (throat) changes the cutting bonus to x2.

EDIT2: 3,5-2 = 1,5 per attack basis. 1,5x2=3 per attack throat. Two throat attacks = 6. :)

[KlausPrinceOfTheUndeads]

Yes, it is nearly impossible to kill someone with a single stab, and this is realistic: if you read a newspaper or see a newsreport on TV, you'll find that average people with ordinary knifes kill other average people with several or even tens hits, not just one or two strikes. Of course, if you are much stronger than the norm (say, ST 13: 1d thr and 2d-1 sw), use an excellent blade (thr +2 imp) and put all your strength into the stab (AoA, Strong), you can do 2dx3 if you manage to strike your victim in vitals, giving you an average of 21 damage and a chance to kill him with a single stab. Of course, that's hard: it should be. But if you use a good-quality modern replica of a broadsword, or just a good replica of a bastard sword made with modern materials, you need only ST 11 to do that: if you were a body-builder, you coul kill someone with a sword stab (note: that's just a sample. you are not encouraged to try to stab people with anything).

[Matuku]

A bit off-topic but someone doing 2d-3 sw with a knife (2d-1 for strength, sw-2 for knife) can do less damage than someone doing 1d+1 damage with a knife; is it possible to do 0 damage with an attack in GURPS or do you always do a minimum of 1 before DR (in 3e there was something about this)?

[NineDaysDead]

What Kromm had to say in 3rd Ed:

Also, remember what "backstabbing" originally meant in AD&D: a surprise attack from behind on a one-minute timescale. In GURPS, the best way to represent this is to let a character who has won a Quick Contest of Stealth (or possibly Camouflage or Shadowing) vs. his victim's Sense roll by a lot -- say, by 10 or more -- to attack by "Total Surprise" (see p.B122). He will then have 1d seconds during which the target cannot react *at all.* He will be able to attack several times, unopposed; the GM might even give him the +4 to hit from the "Instant Death" sidebar on p.B126, in which case he will be able to target vital areas with ease.
Since the victim is not fighting back, the assassin might as well do an All-Out Attack, giving a further +4 to offset hit location penalties to attack vital areas, or +2 damage to get through armor, or simply more attacks. Someone who can strike the eyes (-9) or eyeslits (-10) at +8 (+4
for unsuspecting, immobile target, +4 for All-Out Attack) is going to cause serious hurt. So is someone who is striking at +2 damage. And 1d seconds' worth of attacks -- i.e., 1d attacks, or 1dx2 attacks if you choose to go All-Out for bonus attacks -- is almost certainly good enough to do the job.

However . . .

Do NOT allow this in raging combat. This is a surprise assassination. None of the above is valid if the target is in a fight and expecting an attack. Yes, you might get behind him, but you will not get 1d free shots at him, you will not get +4 to hit for an unsuspecting target, and if you risk an All-Out Attack and fail to take him down, he can just wheel and cut you down while you are standing there defenseless. The move above *might* be a legal opener to a battle, where the thief type sneaks in, takes out a tough foe, and then all hell breaks loose as the thief's allies and foe's allies draw and have at each other.

Do NOT bypass DR. DR doesn't magically go away because you have surprise, and while it is all cinematic and cool for armor to have these "chinks" and "seams" people keep talking about, most armor has overlapping
protection to avoid this, and most weapons simply are not slim enough to take advantage of such openings in any event. There is a reason why special daggers were made for the purpose. Of course, Thieves' Guilds
might do very brisk business in misericordes with narrow, tapering blades. . . but then carrying one will mark you a killer (no, you can't just hide it -- it has to be *long* to be effective at piercing armor).

Remember that this is NOT effective against foes with Combat Reflexes. Citizen Fred, Joe the Town Guard, Oggh the Ordinary Orc, etc. will probably be fair game. Don't expect a ninja or ranger, or a predatory cat, or some grizzled veteran carrying 47 separate weapons to fall for it. You might still get an attack from behind, but the target will not freeze up -- he will just turn and pummel you if you fail to take him down.

SP.