Experience Points

[KevinJ]

Originally Posted by Skarg

Yes, if that's what Steve meant. I'm not clear if he means Staff of Power has double capacity, or if it just means a Wizard can raise their Staff ability to twice as much, but have to pay the EP to do so. I assumed the former because of how it was worded, but I think the Staff ability is powerful so I'd favor having to pay for the double levels Staff of Power allows (and/or having the cost go up the greater you take it - as it is, I think it's a very good buy for 100 EP each point regardless of level).

I thought it was Staff gives IQ in Mana storage and Staff of Power gives IQx2.

[Rick_Smith]

Originally Posted by Steve Jackson

I am open to suggestions for new talents, but not very :) because I don't want to subdivide the existing ones without very good game reasons.

Hi all, Steve.
I would suggest the following classes of talents:

1) Second level of talents for orphans. Most skills in TFT have two levels of talents. (Sword & Fencing, Naturalist & Woodsman, Charisma & New Followers, etc.) However, some talents are 'orphans', with only one level. (Pole Weapons, Shield, Running, Guns, Spy, etc.) Give these single level talents a second level to back them up.


2) A better stealth, a hiding, and an camouflage / ambush talent. The only thing for stealth is Silent Movement (which also makes it an orphan above). Give rules for contests of search and stealth, to make Thieves, Ninjas, and Rangers more interesting.


3) A half dozen kick ass talents. These are hard to get talents like Unarmed Combat v. They are awesome which gives heroes something to aspire to, and help keep these characters competitive with high level wizards. Some suggestions:

-- Strike Master. Vast knowledge of the weaknesses of many races, monsters, and animals. You do +2 damage, and have a much better chance of getting a critical hit when you hit. (If you are not using the optional critical hit rules, this just gives a flat +3 damage instead.)

-- Trained Reflexes. Like UC v but for guys with weapons & armour. You are just harder to hit.

-- Expert Defender. The defend option is better for you, and if the enemy misses by a LOT, you get a free counter attack.

-- Logistics / Management. This can combine with any top level talent to allow you the abilities to run a major operation. This plus Spying makes you the Spy Master. This plus Master Seaman makes you the Captain. This plus Master Thief makes you a Thief Lord. This plus Strategist makes you a General.

-- Trained Judge of Character. You are much better at detecting lies, detecting attempts to manipulate you, and figuring out what motivates people.

-- Knack for ? This is a slight magical ability to make a normal talent just a bit magical. For example, a Knack for Climbing would allow a climber to best shear surfaces (but not glass smooth). A knack for Swords gives you +1 damage, & a slight magical boost to your sword work. A knack for Architect / Builder gives your building a bit of magical strength. The GM must describe the details of how the knack works in a particular situation, but generally the person with this knack is in the top 10% of what is humanly possible. Each player can take only one knack which modifies exactly one talent. (To describe this talent, on a separate page, give examples of a half dozen typical talents to help the GM get a feel of how powerful magical knacks should be.)


4) Miscellaneous Talents. Some odds and ends. Suggestions:
-- A Judo talent that is for HTH. Makes it easier to get into HTH, or make it harder for someone to get you in HTH, making or avoiding pins. Being taken down into HTH is a frustrating random roll. This talent gives you some control over your fate HTH wise.
-- A talent for knocking people out with out killing them. To Kosh or sandbag someone. (Note that concussions can do permanent damage, but this is a cinematic talent that never does permanent damage.)
-- A Fast Draw talent.
-- A security / police talent to give top ninjas a minor boss.

***

I think that 20 well chosen talents would GREATLY improve TFT. They had a huge impact for a small cost in my campaigns.

Warm Regards, Rick.

[JLV]

Originally Posted by tbeard1999

A sentiment I agree with. I can think of only two (minor) IQ 8 talents that I’d really like to see:

First Aid (1), like physicker, but heals one hit with physicker’s kit. Can later buy physicker for 1 point. Alternatively, or additionally, perhaps reduce IQ prerequisite for physicker talent.

Quickdraw (1), allows figure to drop unused ready weapon/torch, etc. (if any) and instantly ready a new weapon. Must be taken separately for swords (including knife), ax/mace, pistol (in Wild West campaign). Other weapons are possible, I suppose.

[You could require a 3/DX roll if desired, but it seems to be a fiddly flourish.].

[Addition for Wild West and later campaigns] - If two figures Quickdraw and it’s important to know who drew first, make a 3/DX roll. Whoever makes the roll by the most (or misses it by the least if both miss) wins.

YES to both of these talents! They were the very first new talents we ever added in my gaming group, clear back in 1982 or so. And they work well (though, honestly, the Wild West was not the primary motivator for Quick Draw -- we were thinking more in terms of Iaijutsu, where a Samurai drew his sword and struck in the same motion, thus gaining an immediate advantage in the battle...).

Originally Posted by tbeard1999

This suggests a simple general rule to resolve opposed contests.

Both figures make a 3 die roll against the applicable attribute. Appropriate talents may reduce the dice. If both succeed, the one that makes the roll by the most wins. If both fail, the one who fails by the least wins. If one wins and the other loses, the winner will win the contest.

zot is coming up with a contest system that I think works very well. He's in the throes of re-writing it now to make it clearer/easier to understand, but once he publishes it (presumably here), I think a lot of people will like it... Having said that, your idea would work quite well too...

In fact, responding to Steve's comment, I don't see much advantage to simply dividing talents for their own sake (though we've done that too, and it was fine, but a bit fiddly). Instead I would much prefer to see new talents provided that expand the repertoire of the players instead of merely emphasizing increasing skill.

[Chris Rice]

QuickDraw! I was just thinking of that, I'm sure I used to have something like that and I'd be in favour of its inclusion in the new rules. Particularly useful in combination with Thrown weapons; now your Roman Legionary can throw his pilum and close to engage without delay!

[zot]

Originally Posted by JLV

zot is coming up with a contest system that I think works very well. He's in the throes of re-writing it now to make it clearer/easier to understand, but once he publishes it (presumably here), I think a lot of people will like it... Having said that, your idea would work quite well too...

I posted a request for review here, in case anyone wants to check it out...

[KevinJ]

Has talent 'scaling' been discussed?

By this I mean that if your character is, say, ST12, DX12, IQ12 and you buy the Sword talent. Normally, the only way to get better with your talent is to increase DX for accuracy or ST for damage.

With Sclaing you would increase your Sword Talent by putting more points into it, similar to increaing the Mana stat for the Staff Spell. But in this case the cost would increase exponentially. So if Sword (2) cost 200xp to learn the talent, then the fist improvement [+1 skill] would cost 400xp (base to the second power) and the second improvement [+2 skill] would cost 800xp, the 3rd improvement [+3 skill] would cost 1600xp and so on.

If used with all Talents an IQ10 character could buy his "skill" up with IQ talents to represent time spent learning everything there is to learn about a given IQ based Talent. The same for DX based talents, making that DX10 fighter more proficient by spending more time and effort to become more proficient.

This might need a cap or tripple the cost instead of doubling for each +1 skill, or both. But it would allow the average guy [32 pt peseant] to be very proficient at his vocation without requiring a high native IQ or DX.

[JLV]

That actually sounds somewhat like En Garde!'s "expertise" system; one of the attributes of an En Garde! character is his expertise with a particular weapon (rapier, sabre, or cutlass) which he can improve by one point by practicing for four weeks. (He can also "trade in" five points of expertise for an extra point of strength, but that's another story). This provides an advantage in the game by requiring your less-experienced foes to put in an extra "X" (or "pause" for one beat) for every point of expertise he's short compared with you -- which increases your chance of getting a hit on him by making an attack during one of his "pauses."

Translating that into TFT terms would be interesting. I could see where an "expertise" rating for a particular weapon might be a useful concept, but since TFT combat is at a much higher level than a split second "pause" or "attack" is, I'm not entirely sure how you would translate it into something meaningful in TFT terms (without breaking the combat system, that is).

(I'd also point out that this sounds a lot like my suggestion months ago for breaking each talent up into four skill levels (0-3) where "0" was "Trainee", and meant you no longer had to roll 4/DX for an "untrained" skill level, and levels 1 through 3 (Apprentice, Journeyman, Master) gave you an increasing bonus (+1, +2, and +3, obviously) to your DX for that particular talent; or, in weapons, you could instead opt to increase damage by +1, +2, or +3 if you were willing to forego your DX bonuses to do so. Sadly, Steve has already said he's none to keen on this idea (see above), so I'm guessing it's a bit of a non-starter. Which is NOT to say that you got the idea from me or En Garde! -- I've seen way too many examples of "great minds..." to assume any such thing!)

[KevinJ]

Originally Posted by JLV

Sadly, Steve has already said he's none to keen on this idea (see above), so I'm guessing it's a bit of a non-starter. Which is NOT to say that you got the idea from me or En Garde! -- I've seen way too many examples of "great minds..." to assume any such thing!)

Then I'll just put it on a sticky note and see how things look at publish.

[David L Pulver]

Originally Posted by Steve Jackson

I am open to suggestions for new talents, but not very :) because I don't want to subdivide the existing ones without very good game reasons.

I would like to see a few more IQ 7-8 talents, just because it is often hard to "fill up" an IQ 7-8 character's slots with the existing list without making him a master of weapons and languages! (Or move Climbing, Silent Movement and Tracking to IQ 7 or 8... if an animal can do it, after all...).

The suggested First Aid and Fastdraw are good ones as well.

For talents, the problem is that if you START with a character with, say, IQ 12 or 13 you can easily buy a nice bunch of talents because the "first eight are free" (IQ 8 base). But when you are advancing an existing character, going from IQ 12 to 14 to buy, say, a level of Armourer results in stat bloat.

My own game's solution was to start characters with (IQ-5) x 2 points of talents, thus allowing a single increase in IQ to buy a new 2-point talent.

A less radical solution would be to drop the cost of a great deal of talents (those without major tactical or adventuring advantage) from 2-3 IQ to 1 IQ, but add a few more DX or ST prerequisites, or other talent prerequisites, where necessary to balance this out, e.g., Physicker might require DX 12+ as well. We already see this in some talents like Warrior and Fencing.

[David L Pulver]

I like in principal the XP system Steve suggests.

However, I really did enjoy the EFFECT of the old system where you received xp for each hit you inflicted on an enemy and an extra bonus for delivering the killing blow.

The effect on PLAYERS was very exciting for me as a GM - it made them highly aggressive in their tactics, and really captured a sort of Heroic Age ethos similar to the Illiad or Viking sagas (or the French nobles at Agincourt...) where players jockeyed to attack the enemy.

Likewise the experience point award for play time encouraged lengthy sessions...

I'd be sad to see these element depart, as they were key to the old TFT experience. I'd like to see them retained even if they were just relegated to an optional box or something.