Large scale Battle Magic

[warhorse11h]

Has anyone given any thought yet to how to apply magic to large scale battles yet? Granted that most of us may never need it or play long enough to have characters rise to command rank yet, eventually it will happen. Most if not all the magical effects of the current spells are useful for small unit actions or dungeon parties, but a 3 ST lightning bolt is not effective against a large body of men at arms.

I'm tentatively thinking about this, but I haven't gotten very far. Just curious as to whether anyone else is considering it for further down the road.

[hcobb]

Summon Demon: "Bring me the head of that army or country. Don't bother with the neck or any other part."

Great Voice & Word of Command - Surrender.

Whisper & Word of Command - Kill (directed at the enemy leader)

Whisper & Geas (Ditto)

Zombie

Create Gate (requires Drain Strength if you're going to march an army through)

I really don't see how you can have war on Cidri, as every country has the equivalent of nuclear bunker busters.

[warhorse11h]

If human history is any indicator, they will find a way. Besides, Dran is sparsely populated and Tanandar is desolated as the result of a great war some two centuries ago. So, it is possible.

[hcobb]

What is your castle defense? It's based on stopping magic, demons and dragons rather than arrows. So what's the design look like?

I'm working on a setting where in the entire village there are zero clear triangles (outside of that one pentagram) because they are justified in fearing large demon attack.

[Mike P.]

Originally Posted by warhorse11h

Has anyone given any thought yet to how to apply magic to large scale battles yet?

How large scale do you have in mind? I have toyed with running large scale battles before, and you really almost need an alternative rule set for running huge combats that would have say more than 15 figures on each side. The TFT combat system is detailed and elegant, but gets bogged down with "Huge" battles.


As for Large scale battle magic, Dark City Games has a neat rule set (basically TFT compatible), that has larger area versions of some traditional AW spells; Image, Illusion, and Sleep, come in 1, 4, and 7 hex versions.
Fire, Shadow, Slippery Floor, Wall, Avert, Magic Fist, Fireball, and Lightning come in 1, 3, and 7 hex versions.
Here is a link to DCG's rule set;
www.darkcitygames.com/docs/Legends.pdf
Hope this is helpful!

[JohnPaulB]

Originally Posted by Mike P.

How large scale do you have in mind? I have toyed with running large scale battles before, and you really almost need an alternative rule set for running huge combats that would have say more than 15 figures on each side. The TFT combat system is detailed and elegant, but gets bogged down with "Huge" battles.

I haven't adapted any large scale Battle Magic, but I have run large scale battles before. In that situation I did modify TFT a bit. I had all missile weapons and missile spells go first for that turn. This allowed anything long distance to be gotten out of the way so you can then handle the melee and thrown weapons/spells without worry of "outside actions".

Then I dealt with combat as small groups that would only influence each other in combat, say 3 orcs attacking 2 peasants in one group and 5 orcs attacking a knight as another group. These combat groupings would fluctuate as pieces moved into viable attacking ranges.

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Would large scale Battle Magic involve 14 hex fires?
I think summoning 14 hex dragons might involve large scale Battle Magic.

[warhorse11h]

I have a copy of the old "Lords of Underearth" which provides a usable combat system for large scale combats involving companies of fighters on a side and even has effects for "heroes" affecting the outcomes. The only mention of magic though is a cop out saying that the rules of ITL are compatible and it should be possible to scale up spell effects by increasing the ST to use the spells.

Some spells in ITL are already large enough to be useful in this kind of warfare. Any of the 7 hex Creation spells, if treated as permanent or until willed off could be used to channelize opponents, block open areas, etc. Particularly if a group of wizards worked on them, extending them on the ends or making them thicker by multiple castings.

Offensive combat power is where the game seems to be lacking now. That may just be a perceptual problem on my part.

Originally Posted by JohnPaulB

Would large scale Battle Magic involve 14 hex fires? I think summoning 14 hex dragons might involve large scale Battle Magic.

Both of those ideas would fit into what I am thinking about.

[warhorse11h]

Originally Posted by hcobb

I really don't see how you can have war on Cidri, as every country has the equivalent of nuclear bunker busters.

But not every war involves unconditional surrender or regime change. Some involve making a resource, province, or policy simply too expensive to acquire or maintain, even if the participants restrain themselves from using their full efforts.

[hcobb]

You need either magic or Shield Expertise to charge against the branded light crossbow in the open.

[warhorse11h]

Originally Posted by hcobb

You need either magic or Shield Expertise to charge against the branded light crossbow in the open.

Or catapult stones striking the walls. Or perhaps slinging explosive gems into the town. People who are being shot at have something to do besides shoot at you.