Dragon Skin Armor

[JLV]

It's interesting that some of you would assume my comments were based on the "morality" of the situation (though I suppose you could assume that via my use of the term "faux pas"). I'm not much in judgement of people's morals.

My thought is that a dragon would do his absolute best to discourage other people from skinning dragons. And if word got out that someone was doing that, I suspect other dragons, even if they didn't particularly like one another, might get together to do something about it.

Cows aren't intelligent, which defeats the purpose of your comparison. Likewise, I have yet to see a warrior wear a necklace of human teeth (unless he was a cannibal...or an SS goon, maybe), and anyone who goes around sporting trophies from humans is generally looked upon askance by other warriors (at least in my experience with actual warriors). Shrunken heads are usually there for ceremonial reasons (often magical) in the tribes that use them, and aren't often carried into battle since they can be damaged as a result. Just sayin'

[Chris Rice]

Originally Posted by Tywyll

Why?

I mean, why would it be specifically heavy? I can see that in the case of really large dragons maybe, but you'd only use the parts that would make it suitable to wear.

Now, if the scales came from a 7 or 14 hex dragon, I'd probably up its protection and dx mod.

I just imagine dragon skin as much thicker than horse or cow hide normally used for leather armour. If you see it differently that fine.

[Tywyll]

Originally Posted by JLV

It's interesting that some of you would assume my comments were based on the "morality" of the situation (though I suppose you could assume that via my use of the term "faux pas"). I'm not much in judgement of people's morals.

I think you do. People look askance at taking human trophies for moral reasons.

My thought is that a dragon would do his absolute best to discourage other people from skinning dragons. And if word got out that someone was doing that, I suspect other dragons, even if they didn't particularly like one another, might get together to do something about it.

Of course they would, but that doesn't stop wizards and alchemists from using their bits now (or gargoyle bits, which are also intelligent).

Cows aren't intelligent, which defeats the purpose of your comparison.

True, but I think you are ignoring a person's ability to 'other' people for their own interests.

Likewise, I have yet to see a warrior wear a necklace of human teeth (unless he was a cannibal...or an SS goon, maybe), and anyone who goes around sporting trophies from humans is generally looked upon askance by other warriors (at least in my experience with actual warriors). Shrunken heads are usually there for ceremonial reasons (often magical) in the tribes that use them, and aren't often carried into battle since they can be damaged as a result. Just sayin'

We aren't talking about modern warriors with modern sensibilities. As awful as the real world is, there has been some increase in general empathy and horror. But remember, it wasn't that long ago that the Nazis made lamp shades out of human skin.

[MikMod]

Originally Posted by JLV

I would think that making armor from the skin of a sentient being might be considered somewhat of a faux pas in any society as mixed in species make up as the typical "high fantasy" society is.

I think that 'society' may be the key here. Dragons are not actually part of the mixed 'race' society in (I guess) most campaigns.

If an Orc living in a tribe of orcs wants to wear a necklace of human, elven and dwarven ears, I don't feel it would be a faux pas, it might even bring her kudos. Would it be tricky if she nips into town to trade? Sure. Otherwise, I don't see the issue. Certainly day to day practically it's no problem for her, and given that morals are set by the society you live in, I don't think there would be a moral problem either.

Likewise, there aren't many dragons down the local bar who are going to be put out by a hobbit in dragon leather. Whereas a hobbit wearing an elf skin is likely to bump into people who are elves, are friends with elves, or just consider elves part of polite society, VERY often, and this would continually cause problems. Because elves are part of society and most societies have agreed it isn't ok to wear bits of people (from that society).

And as Tywyll said, when you go around eating people you've kinda lost the high ground :)

[zot]

Originally Posted by Tywyll

We aren't talking about modern warriors with modern sensibilities. As awful as the real world is, there has been some increase in general empathy and horror. But remember, it wasn't that long ago that the Nazis made lamp shades out of human skin.

And you can still see extreme brutality today in certain areas of the world, with videos of beheadings and worse.

I think there's always been a mixture of brutality and empathy. We like to think we invented empathy but you can see quite a lot of it in the Ugaritic texts of Canaanite myths from around 1200 BC which you can find in Stories of Ancient Canaan. The book is fairly short and I thought it was well worth the read. You can also see what we tend to think of as modern sensibilities in the Book of Job, which has some overlap with the Ugaritic texts.

For that matter, we also like to think we invented engineering but the clockwork device, the Antikythera mechanism was made somewhere between 205 BC and 87 BC. It makes me wonder how much tech that we don't know about has just dissolved over time.

The more I learn of ancient texts and culture, the less advanced we seem...

[JLV]

Originally Posted by Tywyll

I think you do. People look askance at taking human trophies for moral reasons.

*sigh* So you're telling me what I meant, are you? All righty then...

Originally Posted by Tywyll

Of course they would, but that doesn't stop wizards and alchemists from using their bits now (or gargoyle bits, which are also intelligent).

True, but people use fetal material in scientific research too. There seems to be some slack cut for that sort of thing...

Originally Posted by Tywyll

True, but I think you are ignoring a person's ability to 'other' people for their own interests.

And cows still aren't intelligent, which still makes the simile inapt.

Originally Posted by Tywyll

We aren't talking about modern warriors with modern sensibilities. As awful as the real world is, there has been some increase in general empathy and horror. But remember, it wasn't that long ago that the Nazis made lamp shades out of human skin.

See my actual comment, which specifically mentioned "SS goons"...

[Skarg]

Seems to me that moral reasoning can and will be whatever it is for whatever groups in everyone's different campaigns. Humans and fantasy writers have done just about every combination. I don't see much reason to require finding anthropological precedents.

Looking at the ITL description of dragons, though, I would add (unless someone mentioned it and I missed it), that dragons are prideful and give some weight to combat accomplishments, which I'd think would tend to be another reason to notice and care about humanoids in dragon skin armor, probably but perhaps not always in an "I think I'll kill that one" kind of way.

[Helborn]

Back to the OP, I think there is a choice depending on the thickness used. It can even replace Plate (-5) with a modification to mass - maybe 45 lbs? Additional thickness would also give additional fire protection.....


Regarding morality - I believe that SJ's concept was to make most of the potions and enchanted items use components from sources that would fight back - making them rarer. Also, the ones requiring the source to be dead (whether a brain, eyes, gall bladders, etc.) are sources (including humans) that preyed on the "good" guys and so, were legitimate targets of the righteous. Yes I know that a source doesn't have to be dead for the eye or gall bladder to be taken, but in their Tech Level it is usually a death sentence to have such organs removed.

[RVA_Grandpa]

In our campaign we haven't gone hunting for a beast to collect vital ingredients for magic items or superior armor... yet. We have collected items from monsters who have attacked us and died trying. It helps cover the cost of the trip.