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Old 10-09-2020, 06:10 PM   #1
phiwum
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Boston area
Default Unnoticeability

I'm thinking about golems from BOU. I think it's great that they are Unnoticeable. Seems appropriate. The following questions aren't so much about golems but about unnoticeability, especially as a permanent ability. I'm looking for how others would play this interesting effect.

Question 1:

Suppose Fred and Wilma are on the street and Fred notices the golem, but Wilma doesn't. If Fred points and hoots and hollers that there's a clay man over there, does Wilma get a second die roll? Does she get a third if he keeps it up?

Question 2:

Suppose the golem attacks Fred and Wilma still hasn't noticed it. Does she notice that Fred is getting the snot stomped out of him? Or does she not notice anything at all unusual about Fred?

Here's what I'm thinking. I think that if Wilma misses her initial throw to see the golem, then she gets a second throw (still 4/IQ) to see him when Fred tries to point out the golem. If she misses that, she doesn't get another attempt.

If Fred is in combat with an unnoticed golem, Wilma sees nothing unusual. If she tries to focus on Fred, she has trouble concentrating and just comes away with a vague feeling that nothing odd is happening, though she has no particular impression of what Fred is doing. If Fred is knocked out or killed and the combat ended, she will notice at that moment that he has suffered mysterious injuries.

Question 3:

I still have yet another question about how people play this. Suppose that after a thrashing, the golem leaves and Fred is revived. A week passes and the same golem happens by. Fred noticed the golem once. Does he notice him again "for free" or must he roll 4/IQ as usual?

I ask because ITL 30 says that once you've noticed an unnoticeable, you see him clearly. It's not clear to me whether this means you always notice the same golem in different encounters. The spell text is written for a thrown spell, not a permanent ability.
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Old 10-10-2020, 01:46 PM   #2
phiwum
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Boston area
Default Re: Unnoticeability

I guess others don't have any opinions. Not too surprising, since I doubt this spell/ability comes up much.

I've given my opinions on (1) and (2) and I've come to a conclusion on (3). I reckon that a previously noticed golem still requires a roll to notice in subsequent encounters, but at 3/IQ (2/IQ for acute hearing or alertness).
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Old 10-10-2020, 07:55 PM   #3
Axly Suregrip
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Durham, NC
Default Re: Unnoticeability

What is the full name of BOU? I have not purchased or played BOU.

Here is how I would play it:

Q1) Based on the spell (ITL pg 30 "...but those who have not
noticed it must still make a roll to see it, even if you point."), I would allow Wilma a 4vIQ roll every turn Fred is fighting. My reasoning: Unnoticeability affects vision to the target but not to Fred. Wilma will see Fred fighting every turn and will no doubt hear Fred calling for help every turn. Even though Wilma does not see the foe, Wilma will not loose interest in her friend struggling with an unseen foe (certainly not in a world were foes may be invisible or magical). So, each turn they are fighting Wilma would be looking. Furthermore, I would say if the foe slays Fred, I would give Wilma one more roll, at least, given the same logic. That is, something just killed your friend, you are not impaired from fear or logic, just from vision. Caution would require investigating or running.

Q2) Wilma definitely sees that Fred is acquiring injuries. And if killed, she is fully aware of his death.

Q3) I could go either way on this. I would expect it should be he has to roll the save again as if the spell was cast again given how much time has passed. But the problem with this is then, what is the threshold for time for this not to happen? Asking/answering this may drive you to your decision.

The flip side decision could be due to two different reasons. That is, once seen the golem cannot be unseen. Either the spell is broken for your mind or the trauma was so great seeing him will not be forgotten.

Since this is a trait of the monster and not actually the spell, how it works in this situation really should be determined by whoever created the monster. Try rereading it and see if you can tell author's intent.
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Old 10-10-2020, 08:36 PM   #4
phiwum
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Boston area
Default Re: Unnoticeability

Quote:
Originally Posted by Axly Suregrip View Post
What is the full name of BOU? I have not purchased or played BOU.
Apologies. It is Book of Unlife. Well worth the purchase, even if ghosts and such aren't a focus of your campaign.

Quote:
Here is how I would play it:

Q1) Based on the spell (ITL pg 30 "...but those who have not
noticed it must still make a roll to see it, even if you point."), I would allow Wilma a 4vIQ roll every turn Fred is fighting. My reasoning: Unnoticeability affects vision to the target but not to Fred. Wilma will see Fred fighting every turn and will no doubt hear Fred calling for help every turn. Even though Wilma does not see the foe, Wilma will not loose interest in her friend struggling with an unseen foe (certainly not in a world were foes may be invisible or magical). So, each turn they are fighting Wilma would be looking. Furthermore, I would say if the foe slays Fred, I would give Wilma one more roll, at least, given the same logic. That is, something just killed your friend, you are not impaired from fear or logic, just from vision. Caution would require investigating or running.

Q2) Wilma definitely sees that Fred is acquiring injuries. And if killed, she is fully aware of his death.

Q3) I could go either way on this. I would expect it should be he has to roll the save again as if the spell was cast again given how much time has passed. But the problem with this is then, what is the threshold for time for this not to happen? Asking/answering this may drive you to your decision.

The flip side decision could be due to two different reasons. That is, once seen the golem cannot be unseen. Either the spell is broken for your mind or the trauma was so great seeing him will not be forgotten.

Since this is a trait of the monster and not actually the spell, how it works in this situation really should be determined by whoever created the monster. Try rereading it and see if you can tell author's intent.
Thanks for your suggestions. You interpret Unnoticeability as weaker than I was reading it, obviously. I kinda thought it places an aura around the activities of the unnoticeable thing, so that you not only fail to see the subject, but also the action as it is happening. Not sure which way I'll go for now.
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Old 10-20-2020, 05:52 AM   #5
MikMod
 
Join Date: May 2019
Default Re: Unnoticeability

I've always thought of unnoticeability as something you have to 'play along with'. So hanging in a corner or grabbing a tray and wandering around a gathering of nobles, you would likely never be seen, but jump on the top table and start playing the bagpipes and you're gonna get seen!
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Old 10-20-2020, 07:24 AM   #6
phiwum
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Boston area
Default Re: Unnoticeability

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikMod View Post
I've always thought of unnoticeability as something you have to 'play along with'. So hanging in a corner or grabbing a tray and wandering around a gathering of nobles, you would likely never be seen, but jump on the top table and start playing the bagpipes and you're gonna get seen!
I think that makes some sense, but golems have innate unnoticeability which is intended to let them walk down the street unnoticed. Obviously, Shadekeep is the one to ask, I reckon, since he wrote the Book of Unlife.

The RAW do allow an unnoticeable Klingon to fight Spock in the same room as Kirk while Kirk remains unaware. Kirk still has to roll to notice. How often he gets to roll is left unsaid in RAW.
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Old 10-20-2020, 11:10 AM   #7
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: Unnoticeability

I would agree with Axly and MikMod.

I think there's room for interpretation or GM adjustment, but I'd tend to play that any situation that would cause you to notice it (such as it fighting, someone effectively pointing at it, or it interacting with something that's quite noticeable, like walking through water or picking up large objects), will give you another roll, up to once per turn, to notice it.

However if combat is going on, it's +1 die to notice.

I would play that the "you failed your roll, so you don't get another chance" only applies as long as the Unnoticeable figure doesn't do something conspicuous.


As for the Book of Unlife description, since Unnoticeability is a spell effect about the mind, and it doesn't explain how it wants the creature's ability to work, it's left up to the GM to decide, and PCs to learn from experience.
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Old 10-22-2020, 05:58 PM   #8
larsdangly
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Default Re: Unnoticeability

This is one of those spells (and there are many) that come up infrequently in play and have consequences that are at least a little open to interpretation. In those cases, I pretty much always make a fast spot ruling, trying to maintain internal consistency with other rules I've made but not worrying too much about getting it perfect. Better to resolve the consequence and move on to the next 'beat' of the game than to bog down with something that is debatable in any case.
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Old 10-02-2021, 09:35 AM   #9
phiwum
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Boston area
Default Re: Unnoticeability

It just struck me that Summon Dragon and Unnoticeability are both IQ 15. Summoning a dragon and making him unnoticeable would be a pretty devious thing to do, if the GM allowed it.

But I think it's reasonable that dragons are particularly noticeable and the spell would at best have a more limited effect if any at all.
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Old 10-02-2021, 10:06 AM   #10
Shostak
 
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Location: New England
Default Re: Unnoticeability

Quote:
Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
It just struck me that Summon Dragon and Unnoticeability are both IQ 15. Summoning a dragon and making him unnoticeable would be a pretty devious thing to do, if the GM allowed it.

But I think it's reasonable that dragons are particularly noticeable and the spell would at best have a more limited effect if any at all.
Worse, a dragon who knows Unnoticeability and casts it on itself as it hears the party approaching ...
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