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Old 05-05-2014, 08:53 AM   #1
lachimba
 
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Default Voynich Manuscript

Could probably go into any Ultratech discussion, but give quantam computers are as much a THS thing.

Could quantam computers decode (or disprove the possibity of decoding the Voynich Manuscript.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voynich_manuscript


Then I just need to think of an adventure where this could be interesting.
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Old 05-05-2014, 09:19 AM   #2
Fred Brackin
 
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Default Re: Voynich Manuscript

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Originally Posted by lachimba View Post
Could probably go into any Ultratech discussion, but give quantam computers are as much a THS thing.

Could quantam computers decode (or disprove the possibity of decoding the Voynich Manuscript.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voynich_manuscript


Then I just need to think of an adventure where this could be interesting.
Probably not. Quantum computing in regards to decryption is way of vastly increasing your ability to factor large numbers yused in mathematical encryption schemes.

The Voynich manuscript would not have been created using any particularly complicated mathemati9cal scheme (by modern standards of complicated at least..So there's no mathematical problem to solve.

Unless there are Space Aliens involved somehow. :)

Mostly it just looks like another unknown language with no way to get started on translating it. Perhaps something like Egyptian hieroglyphs before the discovery of the Rosetta Stone.
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Old 05-05-2014, 09:29 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
Probably not. Quantum computing in regards to decryption is way of vastly increasing your ability to factor large numbers yused in mathematical encryption schemes.

The Voynich manuscript would not have been created using any particularly complicated mathemati9cal scheme (by modern standards of complicated at least..So there's no mathematical problem to solve.

Unless there are Space Aliens involved somehow. :)

Mostly it just looks like another unknown language with no way to get started on translating it. Perhaps something like Egyptian hieroglyphs before the discovery of the Rosetta Stone.
Apparently, there has been progress made by a linguist (where previous work was done by cryptanalysts).

http://www.livescience.com/43542-voy...s-cracked.html
http://www.theverge.com/2014/2/28/54...k-in-the-world

So any computer would have to be able to do linguistics in order to translate (as opposed to "decode") the text.
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Old 05-05-2014, 11:26 AM   #4
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Default Re: Voynich Manuscript

Human annalists are still much better at complex pattern recognition than any program at the moment.
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Old 05-05-2014, 12:31 PM   #5
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Default Re: Voynich Manuscript

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Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
Probably not. Quantum computing in regards to decryption is way of vastly increasing your ability to factor large numbers yused in mathematical encryption schemes.

The Voynich manuscript would not have been created using any particularly complicated mathemati9cal scheme (by modern standards of complicated at least..So there's no mathematical problem to solve.

Unless there are Space Aliens involved somehow. :)

Mostly it just looks like another unknown language with no way to get started on translating it. Perhaps something like Egyptian hieroglyphs before the discovery of the Rosetta Stone.
One does have to wonder why specially developed code-languages aren't used for increased security if languages are so unbreakable.
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Old 05-05-2014, 01:15 PM   #6
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Default Re: Voynich Manuscript

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One does have to wonder why specially developed code-languages aren't used for increased security if languages are so unbreakable.
Because they're hard work to learn and use effectively. Teaching people a new language that isn't like anything they know takes months, at minimum. The military needs lots of people who can work the communications system, so one can't demand a great deal of them. Once your opponent learns the language - by stealing a textbook, or suborning someone who knows it - you have to do that all over again.

Switching to a different codebook, or using a different encryption algorithm in an existing computerised communication system is trivial by comparison.
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Old 05-05-2014, 01:21 PM   #7
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Because they're hard work to learn and use effectively. Teaching people a new language that isn't like anything they know takes months, at minimum. The military needs lots of people who can work the communications system, so one can't demand a great deal of them. Once your opponent learns the language - by stealing a textbook, or suborning someone who knows it - you have to do that all over again.

Switching to a different codebook, or using a different encryption algorithm in an existing computerised communication system is trivial by comparison.
And yet IIRC USA employed comms trained in a language that the enemy wasn't trained in, to reportedly great success, and without being ever decoded. But the practice didn't catch on. So which of the two is it? Too easy to circumvent, or not?
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Old 05-05-2014, 02:22 PM   #8
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Default Re: Voynich Manuscript

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Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
One does have to wonder why specially developed code-languages aren't used for increased security if languages are so unbreakable.
Even quite simple word replacement codes (i.e. I'll use Apple when I mean Pear) are hard to break unless you have some context, and any code is difficult to break if the message size is too small. The problem for ancient manuscripts in unknown languages is that we have no context and very small messages.

The other thing about the code talkers is that they predate computers. A code that can be broken by a modern computer in an hour may be functionally unbreakable at TL 7 or lower.
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Last edited by Anthony; 05-05-2014 at 02:32 PM.
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Old 05-05-2014, 02:38 PM   #9
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Default Re: Voynich Manuscript

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Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
And yet IIRC USA employed comms trained in a language that the enemy wasn't trained in, to reportedly great success, and without being ever decoded. But the practice didn't catch on. So which of the two is it? Too easy to circumvent, or not?
You're probably thinking of the Navajo "codetalkers" deployed to the Pacific theater during WWII. It was pretty effective, but it worked because we had a ready-made body of native speakers of an obscure language. We did not try to train up recruits who didn't already speak Navajo to do the job. It was a nice bit of improvisation during wartime because we happened to have enough members of an ethnic minority speaking a language hardly studied outside of the US at the time to form a viable corps of signals personnel, but it's not a viable general or long-term strategy.
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Old 05-05-2014, 02:46 PM   #10
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You're probably thinking of the Navajo "codetalkers" deployed to the Pacific theater during WWII.
In the US it actually dates back to some Chocktaw code talkers in WWI (Hitler apparently knew about that and sent some anthropologists to learn Native American languages; a few Comanche were used during the Normandy invasion, but it wasn't as heavily used as the Navajo in the Pacific theater).
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