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Old 05-25-2019, 07:50 AM   #1
maximara
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Default Fixed Magic question

I have been converting the Blood Type vampires to 4e and realized something about Fixed Magic (which a lot of them have) - it has problems when you look at "above average" people.

Say a vampire has Charm 12 as part of its template with IQ 10 as the base.

Using GURPS Magic, Charm is M1 and 8 Prerequisites and would require 8 points for the spell at 12 (IQ 10+Magery 1) which per GURPS Thaumatology costs a total of 23 points (7 points for the Magery 0 + One Spell Magery 1 + 8 Prerequisites + 8 for the cost of spell)

But what if a IQ11 person becomes this type of vampire? Is their Charm now 13 (they have technically paid the points for it) or is it 12 like the rest of the "species"?

What if Raphael Holyoak became this type of vampire? Would he cast Charm at 12 or at 18 due to his IQ 14 Magery 3?
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Old 05-25-2019, 09:39 AM   #2
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Default Re: Fixed Magic question

I usually dodge this question by building fixed magic abilities as a modified advantage, if at all possible. (Usually, but not always, as a Vampiric Power.)

Charm, for example, becomes Mind Control (Costs 6 Fatigue, -30%; Magical, -10%) [30]. It's definitely not an exact translation of the inherent magic-as-spell, and it costs a bit more, but it works for me.

Not sure that works for you, though; I've also been converting the BT vamps to 4th, and I'd love to see your solutions to the conversion problems.
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Old 05-25-2019, 09:55 AM   #3
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Default Re: Fixed Magic question

To emulate the fixed attribute roll you could make that advantage Unreliable.
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Old 05-25-2019, 10:45 AM   #4
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Default Re: Fixed Magic question

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Originally Posted by Apollonian View Post
I usually dodge this question by building fixed magic abilities as a modified advantage, if at all possible. (Usually, but not always, as a Vampiric Power.)

Charm, for example, becomes Mind Control (Costs 6 Fatigue, -30%; Magical, -10%) [30]. It's definitely not an exact translation of the inherent magic-as-spell, and it costs a bit more, but it works for me.

Not sure that works for you, though; I've also been converting the BT vamps to 4th, and I'd love to see your solutions to the conversion problems.
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To emulate the fixed attribute roll you could make that advantage Unreliable.
One of my first attempts, the Penanggalen, is over at the GURPS wiki and even by 3e standards there are problems with it.

The Magery 1 is the biggest one as it allowed the vampire to learn spells not requiring Magery 2 or 3 in a setting where mana based abounded. Never mind the magic item detection the advantage provides.

The 3e Fixed Magic rules as written have a similar problem though they are limited to Magery 0 spells.

Despite what GURPS Update says many times 3e Vulnerability functions like Weakness (like with sunlight)

It's, well, a mess.
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Old 05-25-2019, 11:27 AM   #5
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Default Re: Fixed Magic question

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Originally Posted by maximara View Post
But what if a IQ11 person becomes this type of vampire? Is their Charm now 13 (they have technically paid the points for it) or is it 12 like the rest of the "species"?

What if Raphael Holyoak became this type of vampire? Would he cast Charm at 12 or at 18 due to his IQ 14 Magery 3?
Yes if it you IQ is height than the temple then fixed magic levels rises exactly the same way all IQ skills rise
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Old 05-25-2019, 03:27 PM   #6
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Default Re: Fixed Magic question

Is it not possible to take the "One Spell Only" limitation on Magery 0?
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Old 05-25-2019, 06:26 PM   #7
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Default Re: Fixed Magic question

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Is it not possible to take the "One Spell Only" limitation on Magery 0?
"The standard rules for Magery (pp. B66-67) imply that one cannot apply limitations to Magery 0. This stipulation exists because simply having Magery – however limited – can be useful. Notably, the rules assume that even under conditions that prevent the mage from casting spells (e.g., at night if he has the Day- Aspected limitation), he can detect enchantments and use mage- only magic items. Thus, it follows that limitations might reasonably reduce the point cost of Magery 0 if they restrict these abilities as well as spellcasting." (sic; GURPS Thaumatology 21)
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Old 05-25-2019, 08:29 PM   #8
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Default Re: Fixed Magic question

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Originally Posted by maximara View Post
"The standard rules for Magery (pp. B66-67) imply that one cannot apply limitations to Magery 0. This stipulation exists because simply having Magery – however limited – can be useful. Notably, the rules assume that even under conditions that prevent the mage from casting spells (e.g., at night if he has the Day- Aspected limitation), he can detect enchantments and use mage- only magic items. Thus, it follows that limitations might reasonably reduce the point cost of Magery 0 if they restrict these abilities as well as spellcasting." (sic; GURPS Thaumatology 21)
That rule has always bugged me. How do I make a Magery 0 song wizard?
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Old 05-25-2019, 09:57 PM   #9
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Default Re: Fixed Magic question

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That rule has always bugged me. How do I make a Magery 0 song wizard?
A wizard that is only considered a wizard while singing? (use mage only items, be effect bay "only against wizard abilities"), only can detect changes in the mana level while singing? on detech enchantments while singing?

What is a Magery zero song mage? basically the reason Magery zero is so hard to limit, is most of it function are you are or you aren't abilities.
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Old 05-25-2019, 10:28 PM   #10
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Default Re: Fixed Magic question

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That rule has always bugged me. How do I make a Magery 0 song wizard?
Quirk: Casts Spells By Singing Them.
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