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Old 01-31-2013, 10:57 PM   #41
Dalillama
 
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Default Re: Reincarnation & Marriage

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Originally Posted by Flyndaran View Post
That sounds like a tulpa from Tibetan Budhism.
Came here to say this, but you beat me to it. I recall reading a modern fantasy book (Can't recall the name of it) in which someone had accidentally created a tulpa of their dark side, which was killing people. The problem? The only way to kill a tulpa is to kill its creator...
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Old 01-31-2013, 11:10 PM   #42
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Isn't being able to be in more than one place at once a mark of a Superior?

Only in the sense that non-Kyriotate Superiors can do so...Archangels can use the resonance of any Choir, according to the core rules. (That doesn't explain how Demon Princes get away with bilocation, since a Shedite can't ordinarily do so. Hmmmm....)
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Old 01-31-2013, 11:18 PM   #43
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Default Re: Reincarnation & Marriage

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Originally Posted by Dalillama View Post
Came here to say this, but you beat me to it. I recall reading a modern fantasy book (Can't recall the name of it) in which someone had accidentally created a tulpa of their dark side, which was killing people. The problem? The only way to kill a tulpa is to kill its creator...
I made a character with such a psychic projection. He can just barely hold "her" in usually. It manifested as a beautiful innocent looking child, but with hair covering a horrifying rotting face. It's fun making inner demons more literal.


I also thought of a super hero being connected to a super villain. Either split souls or one a projection of the other. The villain won't kill the hero, because it might kill both. While the hero won't kill himself, because it might NOT kill both.
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Old 02-01-2013, 12:24 AM   #44
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I also thought of a super hero being connected to a super villain. Either split souls or one a projection of the other. The villain won't kill the hero, because it might kill both. While the hero won't kill himself, because it might NOT kill both.
Nice to meet you Janus ... er, I mean Valefor ... er, I mean Janus. Care to stay for dinner?

;)

(Seriously, though, I love the concept!)
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Old 02-01-2013, 04:13 PM   #45
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Or at least not a high-contrast campaign? Bright Polyamory isn't an un-thing! (Or did I skim something I shouldn't have because I'm distracted by the spouse and kid talking math homework at each other?)
Sorry, I expressed myself poorly. If there are three people and only two of them get to meet their Destiny, who gets left out?

Of course, if there's only one soul in two bodies, this problem goes away...
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Old 02-01-2013, 04:41 PM   #46
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Quick, get the celestial superglue... >_>
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Old 02-01-2013, 04:51 PM   #47
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That sounds like a tulpa from Tibetan Budhism.
In a sense. A tulpa, as I understand it, could refer in the In Nomine setting to any Ethereal generated by a single person.

A False Self, however, specifically would be one arising from one's self-image; the thoughts it is made of are your thoughts about yourself. Even if it became independent, it still might be able to access some of your thoughts and memories, since its "strands in the Tapestry" consist of mostly you. One can easily imagine the RPG possibilities for such an ally or enemy, and nurturing one's False Self would seem like a plausible route to Ethereal power for a Sorcerer of a mystic bent.
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Old 05-11-2013, 07:08 AM   #48
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Back to the original topic for a moment, wedding vows include "until death do us part"; taking that as a literal truth could resolve all sorts of messy "marriage and reincarnation" questions in a very straightforward manner, albeit a boring one: marriage doesn't survive death. This is why a widow can get remarried even if her late husband's ghost is hanging around: she's not married to the ghost. (All of this assumes that there's some sort of soul-bonding involved in marriage, of course; if it's strictly a legal convention, the whole thing is a non-issue.)

Liber Umbrarum does indeed include an option where the Forces that are shed as a ghost attempts to anchor itself to the Corporeal Realm stick around, acting as echoes of the original ghost and opening up the possibility of the ghost going on a quest to retrieve them. IIRC, they stick around for as long as the ghost does; when it finally lets go or is destroyed, the ghost shards go away as well. So while it's similar to a Kyriotate in that all of the Forces are still considered part of the same person despite being spatially separated, it differs in that the ghost's consciousness isn't able to hop around or colocate. If one or more of these shards were to somehow acquire Vessels, you could get something not unlike a split soul (separate bodies and separate minds); but ultimately, they're still considered to be part of the same person.

There's also something in IPG (I think) about an option for playing a mortal-turned-infernal — kinda sorta. Namely, if Ethereal Forces from a damned soul are used to construct a new infernal, said infernal might retain some or all of the damned soul's memories. Nothing is said about other kinds of Forces, but it would make a certain amount of sense to me if incorporating celestial Forces from a damned soul could potentially carry over some of that soul's nature, too; though not all of it.

(I personally tend to view celestial forces as the keepers of personality and the "sense of self", just as ethereal forces are the keepers of memory; as such, in my canon you'd need to use both ethereal and celestial forces to pull off this trick: using just ethereal forces would result in a demon who has "someone else's memories".)

Overall, I tend to view the soul in IN as being more than "just" a collection of Forces; rather, I think of it as a more ephemeral matrix to which Forces connect: in particular, the Forces act as the "connecting points" between the soul and the three Realms (as I see it, the soul itself exists in Limbo; and celestials don't "go to Limbo" so much as their Forces detach from the Realms). It helps explain such things as a human's "potential Forces", or the stability of a celestial's Choir or Band status in the face of repeated loss and gain of Forces. If this is true, then there's no such thing as "splitting a soul"; the most you can do is to detach Forces from one soul and attach them to another.
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Old 05-11-2013, 11:25 AM   #49
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Back to the original topic for a moment, wedding vows include "until death do us part"; taking that as a literal truth could resolve all sorts of messy "marriage and reincarnation" questions in a very straightforward manner, albeit a boring one: marriage doesn't survive death.
Which is the traditional Christian/Catholic doctrine, a la Mark 12:

18 Then the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to him with a question. 19 “Teacher,” they said, “Moses wrote for us that if a man’s brother dies and leaves a wife but no children, the man must marry the widow and raise up offspring for his brother. 20 Now there were seven brothers. The first one married and died without leaving any children. 21 The second one married the widow, but he also died, leaving no child. It was the same with the third. 22 In fact, none of the seven left any children. Last of all, the woman died too. 23 At the resurrection, whose wife will she be, since the seven were married to her?”

24 Jesus replied, “Are you not in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God? 25 When the dead rise, they will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven."


As a side note, since Dominic and Laurence lean to the Catholic side of things, that last verse received some discussion between me and my GM when we wound up with two angels (my PC and an NPC) who decided they wanted to wed ...
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Old 05-11-2013, 11:30 AM   #50
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Yeah; I was thinking of exactly those verses when I posted. That said: In Nomine Truth doesn't conform to Christian Doctrine, so it doesn't have to be this way; it's just a simple way of resolving a potentially thorny set of dilemmas.
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