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Old 12-17-2004, 03:56 PM   #11
CharlesGriswold
 
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Default Re: Slaves

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arawaen
I don't have racial slavery, that is all races are eligible for slavery equally.
Equal-opportunity slavery. Cool!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arawaen
I agree with you [bardolph] on the status being limited to -2 (according to Basic Set)but GURPS Fantasy lists Status/-4 for common slave (not sure if this is a hold over from 3e or something omitted from Characters book).
The Basic Set says "In most game worlds, Status levels range from -2 . . . to 8 . . ." I believe that the Basic Set assumes that most game worlds don't include slavery. Yes, slaves are at Status -4.

Remember, specific circumstances over-ride general rules; otherwise, the general rules would have to list each and every exception.
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Old 12-18-2004, 05:15 PM   #12
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Default Re: Slaves

Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesGriswold
Equal-opportunity slavery. Cool!


The Basic Set says "In most game worlds, Status levels range from -2 . . . to 8 . . ." I believe that the Basic Set assumes that most game worlds don't include slavery. Yes, slaves are at Status -4.

Remember, specific circumstances over-ride general rules; otherwise, the general rules would have to list each and every exception.
Out of curiosity who would be status -3?
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Old 12-18-2004, 05:21 PM   #13
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Default Re: Slaves

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arawaen
Out of curiosity who would be status -3?
Slightly more expensive slaves?
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Old 12-18-2004, 05:52 PM   #14
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Default Re: Slaves

Quote:
Originally Posted by Perfect Organism
Slightly more expensive slaves?
I might go with beggars, the destitute at status -3, possibly serfs or indebtured servants (but these may also be status -4).
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Old 12-19-2004, 03:40 AM   #15
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Default Re: Slaves

Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesGriswold
The Basic Set says "In most game worlds, Status levels range from -2 . . . to 8 . . ." I believe that the Basic Set assumes that most game worlds don't include slavery.
Except that it has fairly extensive rules covering slavery - cost of slaves, loyalty of slaves, et cetera - in book 2. It seems pretty clear to me that Status is generally expected to bottom out at -2; if Fantasy talks about it regularly hitting -4, I can only assume that's an unfortunate legacy from 3e thinking.

In general, my rule would be that slaves are Status -2 in a society which regards them as barely human. In one where they're part of the social structure at all levels, they take an effective Status 2 less than their owner or immediate supervisor. (The sultan's mamelukes are Status 5.) However, they always have Social Stigma (Valuable Property). (A free peasant grovels in front of a mameluke - but in the back of his mind, he never forgets that this is a slave, while he is a free man.)

I'd also tend to rule that someone with that particular Social Stigma doesn't have to worry about cost of living - but nor do they get a regular supply of usable cash. Handling their access to small quantities of loose change, and the possibility of them acquiring serious money, will mostly tend to be a roleplaying exercise.
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Old 12-19-2004, 04:23 AM   #16
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Default Re: Slaves

That is quite an elegant way to do it, and it does reflect the history quite well :)
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Old 10-19-2018, 06:27 AM   #17
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Default Re: Slaves

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arawaen View Post
Slavery is going to be present in my fantasy campaign.

I was assuming that the default disadvantages for a slave would be:

Status/-4 [-20 pts]
Social Stigma (Valuable Property) [-10 pts]
Poverty (Dead Broke) [-25 pts]

but would they have a duty?
No; this disadvantage is already included under Social Stigma: Valuable Property. Being somebody's property implies a duty to your owner

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arawaen View Post
How would an indebtured servant differ?
Indentured servants have Duty instead of Valuable Property
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Old 10-19-2018, 06:38 AM   #18
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Default Re: Slaves

Historical slavery could certainly be weird - in Imperial Rome, for example, a slave of the Imperial Household could find himself in significant luxury and ordering senators about ... whilst a slave on one of the latifundii or in the mines could be treated worse than an animal.
As I understand it, slaves in Saxon England actually had property rights and specific days on which they could work for pay on their own account.
IIRC there was at least on culture in the ancient near East where all slaves belonged to the king and were leased to other people.
Slavery has also served as a form of bankruptcy relief, a penal system and many other things ... and GURPS has the tools to let you model any of them, once you know what you want to depict.
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Old 10-19-2018, 08:34 AM   #19
vicky_molokh
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Default Re: Slaves

Quote:
Originally Posted by cnposner View Post
No; this disadvantage is already included under Social Stigma: Valuable Property. Being somebody's property implies a duty to your owner



Indentured servants have Duty instead of Valuable Property
That doesn't sound how GURPS works. GURPS accounts for all problems if they apply, e.g. both being a nonperson and also being obliged to do stuff. For example,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Changing Times 50, on AIs
Most AIs will also have a Duty to their owner; in the case of
those owned by PCs, this arises almost all the time, and so
is worth -15 points.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CT 50, on NAIs specifically
Disadvantages: Automaton [-85]; Dead Broke [-25]; Social
Stigma (Subjugated) [-20].
Nowhere does it say to replace one with another. In fact, in the section on adjusting the templat for an AI that is a citizen, it notes the removal of both:
Quote:
Originally Posted by CT52
Citizen AI (p. TS120): This is an SAI with no Social Stigma,
no Duty (unless it is one that might be voluntarily accepted by
any free citizen), and any level of wealth.
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Old 10-19-2018, 09:01 AM   #20
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Default Re: Slaves

I would rule it the way Vicky does - i.e. the slave has Social Stigma (Valuable Property) and a Duty.

But can I just point out the impressive thread necromancy being performed here? No less than 14 years passed between Arawaen's post and cnposner's response - and the person being responded to, Arawaen, hasn't been on the site in the last four years.

Just pointing that out. One of the strange joys of these forums.
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