"Medieval" fantasy with tech 2?

[AlexanderHowl]

No, by definition the Romans were TL2, since GURPS based TL2 on the Romans civilization. Anyway, the technology of the 12th century (except for medicine) was superior to the technology of the 2nd century. They possessed better horses, better ships, better architecture, better metallurgy, etc.

[maximara]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

No, by definition the Romans were TL2, since GURPS based TL2 on the Romans civilization. Anyway, the technology of the 12th century (except for medicine) was superior to the technology of the 2nd century. They possessed better horses, better ships, better architecture, better metallurgy, etc.

While Rome was the baseline for TL2 GURPS 4e shook things up a bit by allowing split TLs allowing the Romans to have TL other then 2 in certain areas.

Furthermore if you compare what is actually known about Greece and Rome Crude prosthetics (classified as TL3 in GURPS) was known by them (Paré and prosthetics: the early history of artificial limbs. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17973673 )

The fantasy element can play havoc with the TL scale; too much magic and you don't have TL2 anymore. And it doesn't even have to be flashy magic. Take Preserve Food for example. The ability to preserve food indefinitely would a total game changer anything below TL6.

[Flyndaran]

Tech Level is about what is common, not technically existing.
Magic could give lots of "cutting edge" effects without changing the tech level of the majority.

[DanHoward]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

No, by definition the Romans were TL2, since GURPS based TL2 on the Romans civilization. Anyway, the technology of the 12th century (except for medicine) was superior to the technology of the 2nd century. They possessed better horses, better ships, better architecture, better metallurgy, etc.

Historical research has progressed a lot since GURPS was first written. We now know that Rome had advanced in a lot of areas past what GURPS defines as TL2. A better example of a TL2 culture would be Classical Greece.

[AlexanderHowl]

I disagree. The people in the 12th century AD were more advanced than the 2nd century AD, the people of the 2nd century AD were more advanced than the 8th century BC, etc. Low-Tech was written in 2010, so it is not like it is outdated.

[Daigoro]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

I disagree. The people in the 12th century AD were more advanced than the 2nd century AD, the people of the 2nd century AD were more advanced than the 8th century BC, etc. Low-Tech was written in 2010, so it is not like it is outdated.

You might want to quickly check the list of that book's authors again.

In any case, Low Tech didn't define what GURPS TL2 is. I don't think that's changed since 1e, which was out in 1986.

[Tomsdad]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

I disagree. The people in the 12th century AD were more advanced than the 2nd century AD, the people of the 2nd century AD were more advanced than the 8th century BC, etc. Low-Tech was written in 2010, so it is not like it is outdated.

Which people in the C12th AD? And which People in the C2th AD?

To take an extreme example these people might have been catapulted into the iron age* because a cargo chip crashed into their island in 1980's.



The problem is a TL is a rough grouping of at best a vague collection of markers in different** areas of endeavour.

It's fine for giving rough bench marks for world building, but actually the closer you look at the historical record the less they actually fit dates.

And that's fine because they are there to do the former not the latter. (And that's fine because if you are using a strictly historical setting you don't really need to worry about what the "TL" is because you have information from the historical record about what they had).

Basically being born 10 centuries later doesn't automatically make you 1,000 years more advanced in TL level. Because TL doesn't actually care what year it is but what you are doing, and you use what you have developed without caring what the year is.

Basically Roman stone masons, architects and builders did not suddenly stop when drawing up plans and say "oh hang on we can't do this yet, let's wait 1,000 years"

TBF to the GURPS TL system the concept of split TLs basically recognises all this and makes it perfectly possible for Romans in the C2th AD to be doing stuff that wasn't done by some others in the C12th AD


*certainly they're now utilizing iron judging by the arrows they've shot at helicopters and drunk fishermen

**and being different areas they can progress at different speeds in different situations of course!

[maximara]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

Tech Level is about what is common, not technically existing.

Magic could give lots of "cutting edge" effects without changing the tech level of the majority.

It depends on what magic we are talking about and how accessable it is. Niven's Law is a clear issue here. The copy spell kicks communication to TL4 if it is common enough.

Besides "Realistic societies rarely have the same TL in every field of endeavor; they tend to be advanced in some fields, backward in others." (sic) B511.