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12-10-2017, 07:26 AM | #1 |
Join Date: Apr 2013
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"Medieval" fantasy with tech 2?
Out of boredom I read the low tech book. I noticed that a lot of things are available early on (I was particularly surprised about long bows and crossbows, I thought they were tech 3). Now I wonder if you could create a medieval fantasy setting while limiting yourself to tech 2. Most of it seems to be there, except for the obvious stuff like plate armor. Or am I missing something?
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12-10-2017, 07:44 AM | #2 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: U.K.
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Re: "Medieval" fantasy with tech 2?
The difference between those TLs is ... real but subtle, and plate armour aside, mostly ends up involving non-combat stuff. So if you don't mind not having knights in shining armour - which might even reduce the combat advantage for very rich characters (or to put it another way, save dedicated fighters from having to drop a lot of points in wealth) - and are aiming to focus more on the sticking-swords-in-monsters stuff than on the feudal economics stuff, TL2 would probably be fine. Frankly, a lot of Conanesque fantasy is probably more TL2 than TL3.
Of course, you'd be even less justified in letting TL4 stuff like clocks, telescopes, or big galleons slip in, if your players would worry about that.
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12-10-2017, 11:02 AM | #3 |
Join Date: Apr 2013
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Re: "Medieval" fantasy with tech 2?
What non-combat stuff?
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12-10-2017, 11:11 AM | #4 |
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Saskatoon, SK, Canada
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Re: "Medieval" fantasy with tech 2?
Well, take a quick look at the list of technologies in Low-Tech (p. 6). At TL 2, it suggests common developments are "Riding horses and mounted herdsmen; concrete; large glass objects; arches, vaults, and domes; early water mills; theoretical mathematics; humoral medicine. ... Multiethnic empires; founding of universal religions; philosophy; historical scholarship; coinage.", while at TL 3, you've got "Three-field rotation; moldboard plow; heavy horses; flying buttress; windmills and widely used water mills; distillation; compasses; numerals with zero... Universal religions; monasticism."
So, your TL 2 setting might lack some stuff people associate with the medieval period, even if only unconsciously: the moldboard plow, for example, is generally considered to have allowed the heavier soils in Northern Europe to be effectively tilled for intensive agriculture. So if you're earlier than that, regions that we think of as major medieval centers, like England, Germany, and northern France, will be much less important and heavily settled. Or consider distillation! Without that, everybody, from peasants to the nobility, will be drinking beer, wine, and mead, but not whiskey, brandy, vodka, etc. Last edited by Kelly Pedersen; 12-10-2017 at 12:39 PM. |
12-18-2017, 10:19 AM | #5 | |
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Sumter, SC
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Re: "Medieval" fantasy with tech 2?
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Ptolemy, in 130 CE (TL2), used a symbol for zero (a small circle with a long overbar) in his work on mathematical astronomy called the Syntaxis Mathematica. Zero in various forms was showing up at TL2 all over the place. Also the Middle Ages covers a lot of TLs: TL2 for c500 - c1000 CE (Early Middle Ages); TL2 for c1000 - c1300 CE (High Middle Ages), and TL4 for c1300 - c1500 (Late Middle Ages) Finally the amount of fantasy can play total havoc with the GURPS TL scale. As an example here is a chart from GURPS 4e Fantasy pg 66: Spell/Item; Comparable Device; Equivalent TL Accuracy; Gunsight; 5 Armor; Subdermal armor ;10 Continual Light; Electric light; 5 Create Air; Oxygen tank; 5 Create Fire; Fire siphon; 3 Cure Disease; Antibiotics; 6 Extinguish Fire; Fire extinguisher; 6 Foolishness; Alcohol; 1 Ignite Fire; Matches; 5 Lend Vitality; Emergency room equipment; 6 Purify Water; Water filter; 6 Seek Earth; Remote geosensors; 7 Sense Foes; Intruder detection systems; 7 Test Food; Chemical analysis; 6 As the above shows the more common these spells the more the effective TL goes up. Tolken's Middle Earth is what GURPS 4e Fantasy calls "Low magic" with elements of rare magic thrown in. By contrast, the average D&D inspired setting is a mixture of high and common magic and isn't really TL3 anymore. Last edited by maximara; 12-18-2017 at 10:51 AM. |
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12-18-2017, 12:38 PM | #6 |
Join Date: Feb 2016
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Re: "Medieval" fantasy with tech 2?
No, the Middle Ages, at least as defined by GURPS, is TL3 (600 AD to 1450 AD), with the majority of the Early Middle Ages being early TL3 and the majority of the Late Middle Ages being late TL3. I think that Ancient Egypt (1200 BC to 343 BC) would be a great TL2 setting because you could have adventures anytime from the Twentieth Dynasty to the Thirtieth Dynasty. Imagine fighting the Ancient Greeks for dominion over the Eastern Mediterranean Sea or the Ancient Persians for dominion over Palestine. You could even change history with the right campaigns.
Last edited by AlexanderHowl; 12-18-2017 at 12:43 PM. |
12-10-2017, 11:14 AM | #7 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: U.K.
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Re: "Medieval" fantasy with tech 2?
Well, the thing that first occurs to me is a significant improvement in agricultural technology. Which matters a lot to historians, and to the peasants and landowners living there -- but adventurers are often the sort of people who want to get as far away from farming as possible. And shipbuilding technology improved a lot, but not in ways that make a huge difference to adventurers -- though the feel of travel by round ship will be a bit different to travelling by longship, and strictly speaking you may be able to get further, more safely.
You do get some significant advances in architecture. So if you want proper medieval castles, or soaring cathedrals, you really have to go to TL3. But you can have perfectly good solid walls at TL2. Which is just a start. TL3 does also give you a wider selection of weapons, I should note, but the basic sharp things to poke in the other guy go right back to TL1 or 0.
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12-10-2017, 12:43 PM | #8 |
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Re: "Medieval" fantasy with tech 2?
It can be generalized as Starting Wealth. That's $750 instead of $1000. Making every non-combat thing you encounter only 75% as big or that much lower in quality would go a long way,
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Fred Brackin |
12-10-2017, 03:55 PM | #9 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wellington, NZ
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Re: "Medieval" fantasy with tech 2?
Quote:
Oh, and bronze plate will be a thing.
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Rupert Boleyn "A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history." |
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12-10-2017, 04:01 PM | #10 |
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Forest Grove, Beaverton, Oregon
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Re: "Medieval" fantasy with tech 2?
Very basic plate, but not anything at all like full suits. Breastplates and back plates rather than even a full cuirass like I tend to imagine chest plate.
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