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Old 09-13-2016, 11:20 AM   #31
weby
 
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Default Re: TL11^ Smart Shuriken - Awesome but Not?

The shuriken has 0.1 lb mass and is listed as having 1 HP, where it should likely have 2 HP based on mass. That 2 HP results in 2d damage that is then halved to effective 1d cutting.

To get the same 1d from a normal shuriken, you need ST 15 and that normal shuriken is limited to a range of 7 yards for that damage. (as it has ST/2 1/2d)

But really a slightly more powerful and heavier shuriken would be better: a 0.13lb version would have 3d base damage that is then halved.

Also at TL 11^ you should likely have better than base cutting as damage type, perhaps adding a monowire rim for nice 1d+2(10). though by UT rules that is silly expensive...
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Old 09-13-2016, 01:20 PM   #32
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Default Re: TL11^ Smart Shuriken - Awesome but Not?

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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
I don't see how that is tangental the force needed is the same regardless.
I'm not sure i agree with that 1/2 D for thrown damage is a measurement of when the thrown object looses half it's force, 1/2 D for homing is measurement of how fast it can travel in 1 second (and explicitly removes the damage aspect fo the 1/2 D stat as per my quote).

Basically just because GURPS used the same stat in different circumstances to determine each one, doesn't actually mean you can automatically transfer one to he other or how you get them.

That leaves aside the fact that the write up for homing in imbuements specifically unlinks 1/2 D in terms of homing and the weapons usual speed. i.,e is specifically acts in a different way when it is imbued in thsi way



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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
Having it slam without trained ST or an all-out attack and not considering it a slam with a weapon doesn't make any more sense, and results in the problem that the OP has in the first place.

Yeah I agree with that! TBH the actual write up of a sharp thing hitting targets at 200mph it being a slam/collision is odd anyway.

The rest of the game has other example of weapon that are high speed, light, sharp things and which don't use slam rules.


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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
Which is why I think it can be considered to a homing shuriken, which is what it is.

Oh I agree, and I have no issue with it being homing and the 1/2D stat being used in the usual way for homing weapons.

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Alternatively if you are going to insist on treating it as a collision, you need to treat it as an armed slam by a trained attacker, and not like if a robot ball accidentally blundered into something.
Yeah that does make sense


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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
Treating it like a bullet or something, isn't actually anywhere in the GURPS rules (though it also does make sense).
My reasoning is of all the ways GURPS has for working out the effect of things travelling at speed and hitting another thing, the bullet / arrow calculations seem to be not only the most well formed. But also conceptually the most appropriate for a small sharp object travelling at high speed, that largely relies on that speed to inflect its physical damage



However all this said, if you get good results from different methods that's all that matters

And as I posted earlier I think I get about 1d using those rules anyway!

Last edited by Tomsdad; 09-14-2016 at 02:33 AM.
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Old 09-13-2016, 01:27 PM   #33
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Default Re: TL11^ Smart Shuriken - Awesome but Not?

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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
Which is why I think it can be considered to a homing shuriken, which is what it is. Alternatively if you are going to insist on treating it as a collision, you need to treat it as an armed slam by a trained attacker, and not like if a robot ball accidentally blundered into something.
It's an AI with Brawling and Stealth skills. Pretty sure it's allowed to take All Out Attack and other maneuvers.
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Old 09-13-2016, 01:30 PM   #34
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Default Re: TL11^ Smart Shuriken - Awesome but Not?

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It's an AI with Brawling and Stealth skills. Pretty sure it's allowed to take All Out Attack and other maneuvers.
Did I say it wasn't? In fact, I'm saying that if you do want to treat it as a collision (which is the RAW solution anyway) then you should treat it as an armed slam.
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Old 09-13-2016, 01:33 PM   #35
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Default Re: TL11^ Smart Shuriken - Awesome but Not?

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Did I say it wasn't? In fact, I'm saying that if you do want to treat it as a collision (which is the RAW solution anyway) then you should treat it as an armed slam.
I don't see why you shouldn't. I mean, 1 HP and 0 DR pretty much means it has to be treated as an armed slam, in order to not destroy itself on the first target it hits. The skills it has are still valid to know.
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Old 09-13-2016, 01:40 PM   #36
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I don't see why you shouldn't.
The OP certainly isn't. How do you get 1d/2 if you do?
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Old 09-13-2016, 01:50 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
The OP certainly isn't. How do you get 1d/2 if you do?
According to Basic Set, slams that do Cutting, Impaling, or, Piercing only do 1/2 damage. Either Martial Arts intended to replace that rule and forgot to note it, or, somebody just forgot about it when they said a centaur would Slam for 2d+3 Imp with a spear.
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Old 09-13-2016, 01:56 PM   #38
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Default Re: TL11^ Smart Shuriken - Awesome but Not?

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Originally Posted by Nereidalbel View Post
According to Basic Set, slams that do Cutting, Impaling, or, Piercing only do 1/2 damage. Either Martial Arts intended to replace that rule and forgot to note it, or, somebody just forgot about it when they said a centaur would Slam for 2d+3 Imp with a spear.
Yes, but AoA:Strong gives +2, and if it had Sumo Wrestling instead of Brawling (which it doesn't need) it would get another +2.

It also should just do more base damage. It's Unliving and weighs .6 lbs when you include the cell and therefore ought to have 3 HP.

Last edited by sir_pudding; 09-14-2016 at 04:11 PM.
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Old 09-13-2016, 02:08 PM   #39
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Default Re: TL11^ Smart Shuriken - Awesome but Not?

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Yes, but AoA:Strong gives +2, and if had Sumo Wrestling instead of Brawling (which it doesn't need) it would get another +2.

It also should just do more base damage. It's Unliving and weighs .15 lbs when you include the cell and therefore ought to have 2 HP.
Umm . . . The C-cell itself is 0.5 lbs. Which, yes, makes the numbers not add up.
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Old 09-13-2016, 02:10 PM   #40
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Default Re: TL11^ Smart Shuriken - Awesome but Not?

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Umm . . . The C-cell itself is 0.5 lbs. Which, yes, makes the numbers not add up.
Oops! I fixed it!
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