KYOS and Battlesuits?

[Sorenant]

KYOS' logarithmic BL doesn't work well with vanilla battlesuit's constant Lifting ST bonus. How would I go about making these work better with each other?
My current idea is to give Battlesuits a rated ST regardless of the wearer, exactly like Fixed ST from Supers. For example, TL9 Powered Combat Armor gives +10 Striking and Lifting ST. Assuming maximum realistic human ST is 20, it would raise it to 30 giving BL 180 and 5d+2 basic swing damage. Using KYOS, a character with equivalent capabilities would have Lifting ST 20 (rounded) and Striking ST 28, so that's the stat that any wearer would have while using the battlesuit. It's a little awkward, but it's better than a character with ST 16 receiving +10 to Lifting ST and achieving BL 2000.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Sorenant

KYOS' logarithmic BL doesn't work well with vanilla battlesuit's constant Lifting ST bonus.

Eh, I'd probably just assume bigger (stronger) wearer -> bigger suit -> more ST.

[Rupert]

It's a bit weird that they assist strong character's with lifting a lot more than weak ones even under the normal ST system.

My thinking, which should work for KYOS as well as the normal rules (but using KYOS' numbers, obviously), is that they add a set amount to a character's BL. There's no reason to suppose powered armour troopers average any stronger than other soldiers, so I'd calculate it off an ST10 wearer.

Therefore, a suit giving +10 Lifting ST gives ST20's BL minus ST10's BL, which is to say 80 - 20 = +60 BL.

When someone gets into the suit, add that +60 to their BL and work backwards to find their Lifting ST. For example, an ST15 wearer (BL 45) puts on the suits, and thus has BL 45 + 60 = 105, and thus Lifting ST 22 (rounded down from 22.91 - one could round to the nearest without major harm, I expect).

For Striking ST it's simpler as long as things stay in the range of ST and damage where +1 ST gives +1 swing damage. Inside this range we can just add the suit's Striking ST to the wearer's, though it's probably more realistic to use the same calculation as for Lifting ST, but with the Striking ST numbers, and take the damage ratings off that.

[Mark Skarr]

I always thought the bonus to ST from a battlesuit was a little hinky. Me, I'm a fan of it just out-right replacing a character's ST with its own value. If a Battlesuit gives a +10 to ST, it gives a ST of 20. Because, otherwise, yeah, it gives inconsistent results.

And, in Anthony's case, I would agree with that, if battlesuit mass was derived from the wearer's ST, but, since it really isn't. It can't be that.

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by Mark Skarr

I always thought the bonus to ST from a battlesuit was a little hinky. Me, I'm a fan of it just out-right replacing a character's ST with its own value. If a Battlesuit gives a +10 to ST, it gives a ST of 20.

That's the other solution, yeah. Just replace Lifting and Striking ST.

[vicky_molokh]

I understand that people argue for just replacing a PC's ST while wearing a suit from a PoV of realism, but I think that devalues the attribute that is already overpriced in TL9+. Those Spartans and Spess Mehrines still pay full points for having superhuman ST.

[Anthony]

Yeah, I'd be inclined to just give the PC the bonus because they paid points for the ST, they should get something out of it, and realism can go hang.

[Varyon]

Using BL is my preference for battlesuits. Adding to BL, rather than replacing ST, isn't completely unrealistic - the character still has access to his/her arms, and I would assume would start feeling the weight when trying to lift something heavier than the battlesuit can handle, rather than the battlesuit just giving up. In the example of the (default rules) ST 15 character wearing a +60 lb BL battlesuit, for weights up to 60 lb the battlesuit is handling all the lifting, but for heavier weights the wearer can assist the battlesuit. Wear too large of a battlesuit - getting closer to being a proper mecha - however, and the pilot probably can't contribute as much, so as the suit's size increases, the input of the pilot's strength decreases, until the pilot's strength doesn't really matter anymore. In my Battlesuit Design System, I opted to just have a hard cut-off rather than a gradual taper, for simplicity. You could probably justify adding them together through some hand-waving about hydraulics or something in a cinematic setting if you want the character to get some use out of their ST in a mecha-heavy setting, although at the BL of a typical mecha you need to be a rather beefy pilot to really contribute (BL for a minimum sized mecha at TL9 is +210 lb; most will be larger and thus stronger, and BL goes up with TL).

[Mark Skarr]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

I understand that people argue for just replacing a PC's ST while wearing a suit from a PoV of realism, but I think that devalues the attribute that is already overpriced in TL9+. Those Spartans and Spess Mehrines still pay full points for having superhuman ST.

Originally Posted by Anthony

Yeah, I'd be inclined to just give the PC the bonus because they paid points for the ST, they should get something out of it, and realism can go hang.

If you're playing a game where superhumans are wearing battlesuits, then that's a valid choice because realism has already gone out the window. If you're playing a game without superhumans in battlesuits, then the bonus to ST (instead of replacing ST) causes bizarre anomalies.

It's up to you on what you do, but if realism is your goal, then battlesuits should replace ST. If you don't care about realism, battlesuits can augment ST. Neither is right, neither is wrong. They're just different ways of playing.

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by Mark Skarr

It's up to you on what you do, but if realism is your goal, then battlesuits should replace ST. If you don't care about realism, battlesuits can augment ST. Neither is right, neither is wrong. They're just different ways of playing.

My preferred solution is to add the wearer's and the suit's BLs, and derive ST from that. If Striking ST is different from Lighting ST, then treat it as if it had BL and do the same for it. This gives some benefit for your ST even when in a powered suit without giving silly results (IMO, anyway). If the suit is strong enough it becomes effectively the same as just using the suit's ST anyway.