I wonder when DF will do non-European fantasy - Page 2

b-dog · 11-21-2015, 12:43 PM

The whole fake Africa or fake Asia thing is exactly what I would be interested in for DF. I would just love to have some touches to make it seem like the PCs are exploring an exotic land. Sure they are kiling monsters and taking their stuff but it is fun to change the backdrop and costumes sometimes. I just bought Ars Magica Between Sand and Sea which is about Mythic North Africa and it is definitely interesting so if there was a DF Arabian Nights to go with that then I would be pretty happy...

Anthony · 11-21-2015, 01:09 PM

Well, there could be a 'DF: Explorers', covering going off on adventures to far-off lands to find things to kill and loot. It's pretty much in theme for DF.

jason taylor · 11-21-2015, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turhan's Bey Company

It's not politics. It's fashion. The tropes of pop culture outside of clearly identifiable Western sources (kung fu movies, the Arabian Nights, Bollywood mythological epics, etc.) can fit well in the DF paradigm and are evocative in their own ways. They're a kind of fun which, one may argue, has so far been inadequately explored, but they provide ample grist for the mill, so why not? I have little interest in translating specific items from history and mythology into DF terms, but the underlying flavors are ones I happen to enjoy, so I'd be happy to see more DF which partakes of those tropes. More fake Asia to go with the fake Europe which informs a lot of DF! And some fake Africa! And some fake Americas! More everything! Too much is never enough!

That said, I think DF points in that direction more than one might suspect, or at least fails to point away: most templates are fairly culture-neutral (I don't see how one would have to change the thief template to make it conform to pop-culture tropes of feudal Japan or ancient Egypt; the decorative motifs and techniques in DF8 are essentially global) or can be trivially used to adapt them to specific cultures (a samurai is just a knight using a katana; take the axe away from the faux-Viking barbarian, give him a spear and a large shield, and he's a Zulu), a number of bits and pieces are more loudly evocative of non-western tropes than others (shamans, for example), and Mirror of the Fire Demon is in emphatically not-European geography.

Well, just to start with, Zulus fought in regimentalized impis and Vikings did not. Vikings never had to run over hot coals and Zulus never tried to found colonies between New England and Russia. So there was a lot of difference in style.

Phantasm · 11-21-2015, 01:41 PM

DF1: Adventurers pretty explicitly states that DF takes place in a non-culture, and removes any and all cultural traits from the templates.

Any cultures applied to the templates or the feel are the reader's own biases, not the writer's.

Martial Arts and Low-Tech provide a list of weapons and indicate what culture they come from. Quite a few of these weapons are Universal - Axe, Spear, Knife, Knobbed Club, Mace, Shield, Crossbow, Regular Bow. Others give counterparts: You want a kama? Use the stats for a Sickle. A Mongolian or Persian scimitar? Cavalry Saber has your back. A Chinese halberd and a European halberd may look different, both both use the Halberd stats.

Mechanically, it's the choices of weapons, armor, and deities that give DF its flavor, and DF7: Clerics is pretty explicit about not giving names or cultural bias to their gods. DF9: Summoners gives tips for making Chinese, Indian, and Japanese elementalists who use elements that are not necessarily the four Classical Greek elements: Metal, Wood, and Void/Ether.

If you want it distinctly non-european, remove blatantly European weapons and armor. No full plate, no brigandine, no greataxe. Encourage PC and NPC names - which DF itself does not provide - in the flavor you want.

The only thing I could possibly think of would be replacing the "classic fantasy" racial templates (Elf, Dwarf, Minotaur, Centaur) from DF3: The Next Level with templates from other cultures: Rakshasa, Tengu, Scorpion-taur. (I'd keep some form of Halfling, as they seem universal, though I might change the template a bit.)

Turhan's Bey Company · 11-21-2015, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jason taylor

Well, just to start with, Zulus fought in regimentalized impis and Vikings did not. Vikings never had to run over hot coals and Zulus never tried to found colonies between New England and Russia. So there was a lot of difference in style.

Yeah, I think you're missing the point of DF here. We're not talking about real Vikings or real Zulus here any more than DF knights are real knights who have to deal with the strictures of manorialism or DF clerics are worried about homoiousion vs. homoousion. These are fictional archetypes, the Vikings and Zulus of pulpy adventure stories. The political sophistication of the historical Zulu kingdom and extensive trade networks of the Vikings don't enter into it.

~~evileeyore~~ · 11-21-2015, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony

Well, there could be a 'DF: Explorers', covering going off on adventures to far-off lands to find things to kill and loot. It's pretty much in theme for DF.

DF 16: Wilderness already covers hieing off into unknown wildernesses.

Anthony · 11-21-2015, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by evileeyore

DF 16: Wilderness already covers hieing off into unknown wildernesses.

Not actually what I was talking about, though, except incidentally (Wilderness would be important to Explorers, but it's not the same thing). Explorers is about hieing off to find unknown civilizations (in general, think the Age of Exploration, only in a DF style).

Phil Masters · 11-21-2015, 04:16 PM

The mythos-specific monsters alone would probably justify doing culture-specific DF supplements, but as someone who once ran a bit of d20 Nyambe, I think there's a bit more to this than that. The unarmoured warrior with the completely iron spear, the wizard who had to worry about not being mistaken for a sorceror, and the priest who could transform into a baobab tree, gave the thing a distinct flavour.

Tomsdad · 11-22-2015, 09:10 AM

Yeah I'd argue DF is just a filter that is added on top of a setting/culture (since it is setting agnostic).

Some DR character troupes might be a better fit for some cultural settings than others, but I willing to bet most cultures are actually broad enough encompass them with a little thought.

I.e I reckon I could do Vedic swash bucklers, Vietnamese barbarians and Viking martial artists if I tried.

korbeau · 11-22-2015, 11:02 AM

I think DF went to the level to have its own official setting. Maybe testing it with a Recap of Banestorm, calling it Yrth-DF or something like that with a 24-pages PDF to "adjust" the level of Banestorm with DF style and after that, create an entirely setting "à la Forgotten Realms" or something similar based entirely on DF materials - keeping the Dungeon Crawling materials but involving politics, storys, adventures, and so on...

I know it's "one kind of thing that Sci-Fi player don't use" but I think DF is a great and popular line. The next step of evolution of DF could be a setting of it's own.

11-21-2015, 12:43 PM	#11
b-dog Join Date: Nov 2006	Re: I wonder when DF will do non-European fantasy The whole fake Africa or fake Asia thing is exactly what I would be interested in for DF. I would just love to have some touches to make it seem like the PCs are exploring an exotic land. Sure they are kiling monsters and taking their stuff but it is fun to change the backdrop and costumes sometimes. I just bought Ars Magica Between Sand and Sea which is about Mythic North Africa and it is definitely interesting so if there was a DF Arabian Nights to go with that then I would be pretty happy...

11-21-2015, 01:09 PM	#12
Anthony Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Berkeley, CA	Re: I wonder when DF will do non-European fantasy Well, there could be a 'DF: Explorers', covering going off on adventures to far-off lands to find things to kill and loot. It's pretty much in theme for DF. __________________ My GURPS site and Blog.

11-21-2015, 01:41 PM	#14
Phantasm Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: On the road again...	Re: I wonder when DF will do non-European fantasy *DF1: Adventurers* pretty explicitly states that DF takes place in a non-culture, and removes any and all cultural traits from the templates. Any cultures applied to the templates or the feel are the reader's own biases, not the writer's. *Martial Arts* and *Low-Tech* provide a list of weapons and indicate what culture they come from. Quite a few of these weapons are Universal - Axe, Spear, Knife, Knobbed Club, Mace, Shield, Crossbow, Regular Bow. Others give counterparts: You want a kama? Use the stats for a Sickle. A Mongolian or Persian scimitar? Cavalry Saber has your back. A Chinese halberd and a European halberd may look different, both both use the Halberd stats. Mechanically, it's the choices of weapons, armor, and deities that give DF its flavor, and *DF7: Clerics* is pretty explicit about not giving names or cultural bias to their gods. *DF9: Summoners* gives tips for making Chinese, Indian, and Japanese elementalists who use elements that are not necessarily the four Classical Greek elements: Metal, Wood, and Void/Ether. If you want it distinctly non-european, remove blatantly European weapons and armor. No full plate, no brigandine, no greataxe. Encourage PC and NPC names - which DF itself does not provide - in the flavor you want. The only thing I could possibly think of would be replacing the "classic fantasy" racial templates (Elf, Dwarf, Minotaur, Centaur) from *DF3: The Next Level* with templates from other cultures: Rakshasa, Tengu, Scorpion-taur. (I'd keep some form of Halfling, as they seem universal, though I might change the template a bit.) __________________ "Life ... is an Oreo cookie." - J'onn J'onzz, 1991 "But mom, I don't wanna go back in the dungeon!" The GURPS Marvel Universe Reboot Project A-G, H-R, and S-Z, and its not-a-wiki-really web adaptation. Ranoc, a Muskets-and-Magery Renaissance Fantasy Setting

11-21-2015, 04:16 PM	#18
Phil Masters Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: U.K.	Re: I wonder when DF will do non-European fantasy The mythos-specific monsters alone would probably justify doing culture-specific DF supplements, but as someone who once ran a bit of d20 Nyambe, I think there's a bit more to this than that. The unarmoured warrior with the completely iron spear, the wizard who had to worry about not being mistaken for a sorceror, and the priest who could transform into a baobab tree, gave the thing a distinct flavour. __________________ -- Phil Masters My Home Page. My Self-Publications: On Warehouse 23 and On DriveThruRPG.

11-22-2015, 09:10 AM	#19
Tomsdad Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Brighton	Re: I wonder when DF will do non-European fantasy Yeah I'd argue DF is just a filter that is added on top of a setting/culture (since it is setting agnostic). Some DR character troupes might be a better fit for some cultural settings than others, but I willing to bet most cultures are actually broad enough encompass them with a little thought. I.e I reckon I could do Vedic swash bucklers, Vietnamese barbarians and Viking martial artists if I tried. Last edited by Tomsdad; 11-22-2015 at 11:21 AM.

11-22-2015, 11:02 AM	#20
korbeau Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: St-Basile-Le-Grand, Qc	Re: I wonder when DF will do non-European fantasy I think DF went to the level to have its own official setting. Maybe testing it with a Recap of Banestorm, calling it Yrth-DF or something like that with a 24-pages PDF to "adjust" the level of Banestorm with DF style and after that, create an entirely setting "à la Forgotten Realms" or something similar based entirely on DF materials - keeping the Dungeon Crawling materials but involving politics, storys, adventures, and so on... I know it's "one kind of thing that Sci-Fi player don't use" but I think DF is a great and popular line. The next step of evolution of DF could be a setting of it's own.