GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Denizens: Barbarians

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by Wavefunction

You see, I've always got this argument before now, but then you went and released a whole truckload of new and incredibly awesome abilities for barbarians that effortlessly differentiate them from the knight. So I really don't think the above statement is valid.

Sure it is. Backward compatibility is a thing. This supplement doesn't replace all prior art on barbarians; it complements it. We can't have two different baselines floating around out there. What we can do is offer optional alternatives, which this supplement does in spades!

I'd certainly love it if I could go back in time and revise everything to be more consistent, so that the Denizens sub-series replaces the Adventurers templates; Clerics, Ninja, etc. are part of the Denizens series; psi is present from day one; all the gear, treasures, and loadouts are more integrated and logically sorted; and so on. If we did, you could be assured that (1) many of the options in Barbarians would be baseline assumptions, and (2) the tasks in Wilderness Adventures would be far more front-and-center to make outdoorsy professions (barbarian, druid, and scout) essential. There was no master plan, though, and we had to go with what we got, in the order we got it. At this stage, I rather doubt there will be a reboot, if only because Dungeon Fantasy is now 25% longer than the entire Basic Set, even accounting for overlap and end matter.

[Kuroshima]

Originally Posted by Kromm

Sure it is. Backward compatibility is a thing. This supplement doesn't replace all prior art on barbarians; it complements it. We can't have two different baselines floating around out there. What we can do is offer optional alternatives, which this supplement does in spades!

The price of excessive backward compatibility is legacy code. It's always a balancing act to manage it and the need for more modern stuff. All in all, I feel that it was nicely handled here.

[Peaches]

It would be nice if one day there was a GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Compendium, compiling all the material from the DF supplements and Pyramid articles, revised to all work together seamlessly with new tasteful professional artwork.

[Kuroshima]

Originally Posted by Peaches

It would be nice if one day there was a GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Compendium, compiling all the material from the DF supplements and Pyramid articles, revised to all work together seamlessly with new tasteful professional artwork.

Not going to happen, unfortunately, because the economics are against it. It would take too much work to re-edit everything into a single massive volume, and most people would be averse to buying stuff they own again...

[Peaches]

Originally Posted by Kuroshima

Not going to happen, unfortunately, because the economics are against it. It would take too much work to re-edit everything into a single massive volume, and most people would be averse to buying stuff they own again...

Seeing as how the DF line is some of the best selling material for GURPS, I'd think it'd sell well. It'd probably have some new material too of course, and having just one book to flip through is very convenient.

Perhaps it is a pipe dream...

[chandley]

Anything that spells out how to build a naked (Shirtless Savage), ST 30 (for a few minutes, Great Rage), 46 HP (mountain of muscle) Pixie (Short Barbarian, but keep the Gigantism for SM -5!) that sports DR 7-9, takes half damage if hit (Naked Rage), clobbering you with a club 3x as big as they are (Giant Weapons 4) and then hockey checking you at full speed (ramming speed) is a must buy.

Suffice to say, I recommend to anyone planning on a barbarian character. Hilarity is sure to ensue. Which is to say, there are more sensible, but still awesome, builds in here too :)

[Gnomasz]

Originally Posted by Kuroshima

Not going to happen, unfortunately, because the economics are against it. It would take too much work to re-edit everything into a single massive volume, and most people would be averse to buying stuff they own again...

It sure is! As the first "Powered by GURPS 5E" book. Still in this century, if we're lucky.

Originally Posted by Wavefunction

You see, I've always got this argument before now, but then you went and released a whole truckload of new and incredibly awesome abilities for barbarians that effortlessly differentiate them from the knight. So I really don't think the above statement is valid.

For instance, if I choose to be a Shirtless Savage I'm filling the roll of a strong, yet slightly less skilled knight who doesn't rely as much on equipment, that's reasonably differentiated.

If I go Rage Barbarian the difference is even more obvious since I now have a ton of magical abilities that the Knight never gets access to.

That's not to mention the power-ups which I think are probably the biggest thing that differentiates the more martial classes as they steer the way your character grows (in the case of the barbarian, really big!).

As it stands I still have to head over to DF Henchmen and tack on the Veteran lens to a Brute to get the character I want. The only problem is that now I'd also have to try and persuade the GM to give me access to all the delicious possibilities in this book!

The thing is those are all combat flavours (I wouldn't even call it a role). I'd be very careful about putting them in place of out-of-combat utility. I know it's DF and combat is a big deal, but I still feel that making any profession into full combat monster would water down the character of… the character, and the game.

[Kalzazz]

While were dreaming, DF Low Tech, bringing DF all in line with low tech gear

[thulben]

Originally Posted by Peaches

Seeing as how the DF line is some of the best selling material for GURPS, I'd think it'd sell well.

To whom? To the people who already own the constituent parts? That's a hard sell. Especially given that it's not difficult to do a slice and dice on the PDFs you already own and take it to OfficeMax and have them print it out for a fraction of what your proposed frankentext would cost. I agree with Kuroshima in saying that the value proposition is low.

[Peaches]

Originally Posted by thulben

To whom? To the people who already own the constituent parts? That's a hard sell. Especially given that it's not difficult to do a slice and dice on the PDFs you already own and take it to OfficeMax and have them print it out for a fraction of what your proposed frankentext would cost. I agree with Kuroshima in saying that the value proposition is low.

Well, I'll admit it was a half baked idea that popped in my head this morning prior to my daily dose of caffeine.