"Super-archer" vs. "Super-normal archer"?

[B9anders]

Originally Posted by Edeldhur

Hello B9anders,

As I was reading through your basic setup I started wondering (apologies for my inexperience) - if you have the imbuements, is it still necessary to stock so much on extra strength? Won't the imbuements make up for additional damage and effects?

Mind you I have not yet read thoroughly through Power ups 1...

Kuroshima has touched a bit on this, but I'd like to follow up too.

Imbuements won't give you more damage. And penetrating blow for armor divisors requires imbuement 3 which is rather costly. And lest we forget, high ST damage is always on. Imbuements require a skill roll and cost FP. They aren't intended for every shot - just the odd one that needs some extra oomph or different solution.

Effective ST 19 is the golden ticket because it gives you an extra +2 of damage from weapon master as well. And ST 13 is reasonable for any DF combat type at any rate. From there, it's a 17 points investment for a massive force force multiplier. The archer who didn't bother with the elven bow and extra striking ST has to settle for 1d+6 imp with fine arrows. Not bad, but it's a whole die off the guy who did spend those 17 points. The value of 2d+6 imp with a ranged weapon is hard to understate. Shoot at the vitals, and you're one-shotting a lot of opponents. Hell, you're probably one-shotting most anyway with that kind of damage./

And bear in mind, that striking ST 15 will come in very handy in melee too. Like I suggested above, invest 13 points in a melee weapon of choice, say a broadword (or Qian Kun Ri Yue Dao ;)) and he is doing 2d+6 cut in melee, able to rapid strike and parry at half the penalties etc.

A lot of what you are paying for to get an efficient archer closes the gap to bad-assing other departments as well.

And like Kuroshima said, high damage is especially valuable with imbuements like dazzling display and crippling blow, where the penalties are deciding by the damage output.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by B9anders

The ability to pick up any other bow and be only slightly reduced in efficiency.

This is fixed by replacing the 'gadget' limitation with a 'must be wielding a bow' limitation. It does cost somewhat more points.

Originally Posted by B9anders

And yon mystical archer is only 13 points away from being a proper weapon-master with his melee weapon of choice too (skill+2[8] and 5 points for another weapon to master).

Alternate Attack for a melee attack is cheaper and better. If I were spending 100 points on being a super martial weapon master, and was unconcerned with realism, I'd do something like:

Innate Attack@DX+8 [28]
Master Archer, Perfect Shot: 3d6 impaling attack, range 200/400 (+30%), Acc 10 (+35%), AP/2 (+50%), Accessibility: must be wielding a bow or other ranged impaling weapon (-10%), limited by the actual range of the underlying weapon (-5%) [48]
Master Archer, Manyshot: 2d6 impaling attack, range 200/400 (+30%), Acc 8 (+25%), AP/2 (+50%), ROF 15 (+100%), Selective (+10%), Accessibility: must be wielding a bow or other ranged impaling weapon (-10%), limited by the actual range of the underlying weapon (-5%), Alternate Attack [10]
Master of Blades: 5d6 cutting attack, AP/2 (+50%), Melee 1-4 (-15%), Accessibility: must be wielding a sword or other melee cutting weapon (-10%), limited by reach of underlying weapon (-5%), Alternate Attack [9]
Master of Fists: 3d6 crushing attack, Double Blunt Trauma (+20%), Melee C,1 (-20%), Alternate Attack [3]

[Edeldhur]

I cannot argue in one direction or another since I am simply not knowlegeable enough in what regards GURPS rules - I am getting there though ;)

However there is one baseline which It seems i can never distance myself from - I am a SUCKER for versatility: I tend to enjoy stats because they provide me the possibility of having a HUGE skill pool - I know some of them end up never being used in the end but they just seem to add to the flavour of whatever character I create; I stockpile skills; I learn multiple Area knowledges; And when I look at the array of potentially available "trick shots" using imbuement... DANG! Its just NICE!

Just for the sake of clarification, my GM has nothing against Innate Attacks, Alternate Attacks and/or Modular Abilities, etc. Even more so, our characters are in no way engraved in stone. He understands we never played in a Fantasy setting and that tweaks here and there will be needed as we learn more - we're just getting things going because we want to play ;)

From my part, since I have witnessed the activity on these threads, I come here to learn, and it is working like a charm - I have been learning a LOT.

Continuing to learn, and even knowing that my tendency goes toward imbuements and the Striking STR logic detailed by B9anders and Kuroshima above, when looking at the looong list of available options for such path, I cannot help but wonder: aren't the multiple imbuements a terrible point sink when compared with Alternate abilities for example?

Is it worth to equate Modular Abilities for the multiple imbuements (is this even "legal"?)? Or does it make sense to work with defaults on the "least important" imbuements?

[Edeldhur]

Originally Posted by B9anders

A basic package for top cinematic archers in the 250 points range:

Super-Archer:

• Bow+2 [8]
• Fast-Draw (Arrow) [1]
• Heroic Archer [25]
• Weaponmaster (Bow) [20]
• ST+3 [30]
• Striking ST+2 [10]
• Strongbow [1]
• Signature Balanced Elven Longbow [9]
• Weapon Bond (Bow) [1]

Total: 105

For all the force multipliers you want. With fine arrows, this archer is doing 2d+6 imp of damage and shooting an arrow every round at DX+6.

Of course, you'll want to trick out your archer by making it an elf. 4 levels of Forest Guardian, 10% discount on that signature bow (and arrows) and Magery to give you the prerequisites for Imbuement 2 (Magic, Bow Only, -30%) [14] to make a Mystical Archer (save the 3rd level for later).

Then load up on imbuements like Arching Shot, Far Shot, Guided Weapon to make those impossible dual-arrow shots with no aiming through the eyes from 500 yards and and Shattershot, Dazzling Display and Ghostly Weapon for effects that are a bit more magical and versatile.

Lets see if i got this right:

- Say you start off with STR13
- ST+3 [30] puts it at 16
- Strongbow with Bow at DEX+2 means you can shoot at 18
- Using an Elven Longbow raises the bar to 20
Meaning you can shoot a Bow at ST 20 - is this correct?

[Edeldhur]

Originally Posted by Edeldhur

Lets see if i got this right:

- Say you start off with STR13
- ST+3 [30] puts it at 16
- Strongbow with Bow at DEX+2 means you can shoot at 18
- Using an Elven Longbow raises the bar to 20
Meaning you can shoot a Bow at ST 20 - is this correct?

My bad,

- You start off with STR 10
- Meaning you end at STR19

Right?

[Kuroshima]

Originally Posted by Edeldhur

My bad,

- You start off with STR 10
- Meaning you end at STR19

Right?

Yup, because that's the point where you get 2d-1 thrust damage, and so get +4 from Weapon Master (You got +2 before that)

[Edeldhur]

Originally Posted by Kuroshima

Yup, because that's the point where you get 2d-1 thrust damage, and so get +4 from Weapon Master (You got +2 before that)

Ok, great - WOW, i am starting to get a grip on things (reading the books helps:D)

By the way, does this make any sense at all, or would it be better to actually chose the individual Imbuement skills?


Cosmic Modular Abilities 20: Imbuement skills only (-20%) Eldritch (-10%) 1 hour preparation (-50%) [40]

[Kuroshima]

Originally Posted by Edeldhur

Ok, great - WOW, i am starting to get a grip on things (reading the books helps:D)

By the way, does this make any sense at all, or would it be better to actually chose the individual Imbuement skills?


Cosmic Modular Abilities 20: Imbuement skills only (-20%) Eldritch (-10%) 1 hour preparation (-50%) [40]

It depends, I personally find that for an imbuement using archer, you're looking primarily at a handful of Imbuement skills (Multishot, FNORD, Penetrating, Guided). Others are nice but not that important (Shockwave, Conic, Shattershot, the followup one, strike of negation, Crippling, Stupefying, Binding, Cutting,...).

[Edeldhur]

Originally Posted by Kuroshima

It depends, I personally find that for an imbuement using archer, you're looking primarily at a handful of Imbuement skills (Multishot, FNORD, Penetrating, Guided). Others are nice but not that important (Shockwave, Conic, Shattershot, the followup one, strike of negation, Crippling, Stupefying, Binding, Cutting,...).

But with the modular ability, does this not mean I have access to ALL Imbuements? Even Defensive ones?

You think the individual imbuement skill level will be very crippled by using the Modular ability?

[Kuroshima]

Originally Posted by Edeldhur

But with the modular ability, does this not mean I have access to ALL Imbuements? Even Defensive ones?

You think the individual imbuement skill level will be very crippled by using the Modular ability?

• First, your GM needs to allow that modular ability, but I won't go there.
• Second, you will want to have your bread and butter Imbuement Skills at a high enough level that you can absorb at least -5 worth of penalties (so you can use them for free).
• Third, you will also want to raise your DX to raise all your Imbuement Skills and your bow skill.
• Forth, While you potentially have all Imbuement Skills, you still need a long preparation, this really means that you won't swap it often. You'll end up with significant points taken by your bread and butter skills, that you won't swap out. It is probably better to have at least your bread and butter Imbuement Skills bought outside of the Modular Ability IMHO. You can leave your MA for your seldom used Imbuement Skills, but experience tells me that you'll almost always end up taking the same ones.