Only while moving limitation with Enhanced Move (Second-Nature)

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by awesomenessofme1

Going back a bit to the original purpose of the thread, on the topic of Second-Nature, I was wondering something. Despite the fact that the text of Power-Ups 4 says it "replaces Basic Move for all purposes", Enhanced Move with Second-Nature is still treated as sprinting for the purposes of fatigue, right? The character I'm building has a feat in the backstory where she ran around the Earth at max speed without stopping, and I want to make sure her stats are plausible for that.

I cant find it right now but there is a rule (I think in Powers but a quick check isn't seeing it) about long term use of powers costing FP. I'd consider that, and normal running before deciding.

[naloth]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

Assuming IQ 10, Reliable +10 gives an effective skill of 20. Instant Warp, allowing an attack before or after, is -10 to skill while 2 miles is -4 to skill, giving an effective skill 6. If you are doing Blind, you are using one second every warp, meaning that you cannot attack or defend if going at full speed.

While taking a concentrate maneuver, you can defend. If the effect is happening on that second, you can only be interrupted by a Wait.

If I were to redesign a few things, I'd get rid of Reliable as an enhancement. There are independent ways to buy up activation/success rolls via attributes or Talents. I'd make the +1/fatigue to activate/use (but not aim/attack) a generic role and test dropping Reduced Fatigue cost to +10%/-1 fatigue. "Bonus from Time" could be an enhancement that's either specific to a few abilities or generic.

[AlexanderHowl]

Why? Reliable is a wonderful enhancement, as it allows characters from fiction that otherwise could not exist in the system.

[naloth]

Originally Posted by Refplace

More relevant to my reasoning for EM (ground) having an advantage over Warp is that you actually traveled the area. If your going to miss something because your moving too fast you can slow down. Not an option with Warp.

I'm not sure why slowing down isn't an option for Warp? You don't have to always have to jump distances in big hops, and I was envisioning that you'd optimize around small jumps (10 yds - 2 miles) that you can do repeatedly.

My original build could warp 3 times per second. If you only went 100 yards at a time, you would be a lot like a crime fighter zooming around at 150 miles per hour, and you could even go slower by making more hops.

I'm not sure how using 1 second to cover that distance at 150 mph moving is better than using 3 actions to cover a similar distance warping, if both characters have the same sensory advantages.

[naloth]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

Why? Reliable is a wonderful enhancement, as it allows characters from fiction that otherwise could not exist in the system.

You can't say that unless you're looking at a GURPS character sheet for that character. Even then it's just a matter of PV. You could have used other abilities to give them a higher roll. Reliable is never necessary for any build. It's just a way to save points.

The question comes back to if you should make activation/use rolls cheaper for some abilities based on the cost of the ability. I'd rather avoid that and instead use attributes, talents, or skills that have a fixed cost.

[naloth]

Originally Posted by Refplace

I cant find it right now but there is a rule (I think in Powers but a quick check isn't seeing it) about long term use of powers costing FP. I'd consider that, and normal running before deciding.

Yes, it's under "Abilities and Exertion" in Powers p159. Movement powers use the Move/Sprint (hiking/sprinting) in Campaigns. You get HT rolls to avoid loss. If you have a high HT (HT 14+) and throw in Very Fit, you'll never have to worry about fatigue loss from running.

[AlexanderHowl]

Originally Posted by naloth

You can't say that unless you're looking at a GURPS character sheet for that character. Even then it's just a matter of PV. You could have used other abilities to give them a higher roll. Reliable is never necessary for any build. It's just a way to save points.

The question comes back to if you should make activation/use rolls cheaper for some abilities based on the cost of the ability. I'd rather avoid that and instead use attributes, talents, or skills that have a fixed cost.

Attributes and/or Talents impact multiple abilities/skills though, why Reliable is a specialized bonus. Anyway, no one is saving points with putting Reliable on Warp, it is +5 CP per +1, which is the same cost of the associated Talent.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by naloth

If I were to redesign a few things, I'd get rid of Reliable as an enhancement.

Agreed, it's one of the few things in 4e I've looked at and said "point crock".

On specific Advantages I can agree to its usefulness and applicability... but when it's applied whole hog and at the Player's 'whim'? Aw hell naw!

[naloth]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

Attributes and/or Talents impact multiple abilities/skills though, why Reliable is a specialized bonus. Anyway, no one is saving points with putting Reliable on Warp, it is +5 CP per +1, which is the same cost of the associated Talent.

Yes, which is why you would be better off buying Talent. Other speedster abilities (future/stunts) could benefit.

On some abilities Reliable will be a cost savings, on others it may cost more than buying the bonus another way. It's a lot like having to go look for coupons then comparison shopping to figure out the best deal.

Accuracy is another enhancement that seems ok until you figure out that you're paying for a conditional bonus where the cost is relative to the power of the attack. Should a scope for a 2d attack cost twice as much as a scope for a 1d attack? You can just buy skill for 4 points/+1 and that works all the time.

[awesomenessofme1]

Originally Posted by naloth

Yes, it's under "Abilities and Exertion" in Powers p159. Movement powers use the Move/Sprint (hiking/sprinting) in Campaigns. You get HT rolls to avoid loss. If you have a high HT (HT 14+) and throw in Very Fit, you'll never have to worry about fatigue loss from running.

So this is a bit of a confusing situation. According to the RAW, Fit/Very Fit gives a bonus to all HT rolls, but doesn't improve HT itself or HT-based skills. But there are at least a few situations where you roll either against HT or an HT-based skill, including running. Based on the way it's written, it sounds like it's almost useless to train in running if you're already Fit/Very Fit because it means you need to spend 8/12 pts on Running before you see any improvement.

On the topic of Reliable, I genuinely don't understand why people have some kind of issue with it. There are plenty of reasons you might want to build a character that's very skilled with one ability without being especially intelligent/strong-willed/broadly talented/etc.