Zombie Killing

[TheOneRonin]

So the recent Zombie Apocalypse thread and my time spent catching up on The Walking Dead inspired me to start working on my own Zombie game.

I'm planning on using slow zombies, but I'm having some difficulty on figuring out how the players will actually be able to kill these things.

Of course, The Walking Dead makes it look a LOT easier than it would be in a fairly realistic game, but is it too difficult?

Let's assume a slow Zombie that doesn't Dodge or Parry and only attempts to get into CC and perform a grapple/bite action as the opposition. Also, let's go with damaging the brain as the only way to actually "kill" them.

A character with a long knife intent on stabbing said Zombie in the head would be faced with the following skill modifiers:

AoA (D): +4 (risky, but one hit is probably enough to kill, and it's going to take the Zombie at least two turns to deal damage).
Telegraphic Attack: +4 (Zombies don't defend, so why not?)
Targeting the Skull: -7

So a net +1 to skill sounds pretty good, but what about characters using weapons they are not proficient in?

So you want to use a crowbar to smash a Zombie skull? Okay, that's an improvised weapon and is probably Axe/Mace -1. You don't have the Axe/Mace skill? Well, it defaults to DX -5. Add all of that up with the modifiers I listed above and your DX 10 Cab Driver is at an effective skill of 5.

Your high school math teacher wants to use that kitchen knife on the Zombie shambling towards him? That comes out to an effective skill of DX -3.

Your deer hunter character is out of ammo and wants to use his Machete to kill a Zombie? At least it's not an improvised weapon, but he's never trained to FIGHT with it, so no SHORTSWORD skill. That leaves him at DX -4.

For what it's worth, I get that these numbers may be very realistic. But are they workable in a Zombie Apocalypse game?

I wouldn't want killing zombies to be quite as easy as it is in The Walking Dead but damn...with the numbers above, it's so hard, only the people with real melee combat skills have a reasonable chance of doing it.

Has anyone had any experience with this in games you played or GMed? Were zombies that hard to kill or did you/the GM give the players some leeway? How did it work out for the enjoyment of the characters?

My initial thought was that single zombie shouldn't be TOO MUCH of a threat vs. an aware, armed, and uninjured character, even if that character is DX 10 and has no actual combat training. But if I go with the rules above, only high DX and/or characters skilled in Melee combat have a decent chance of being able to kill a zombie before becoming a light snack.

I want the players to be capable, but not all super-combat experts.

[DanHoward]

If you go hand to hand with a zombie with a weapon you aren't familiar with then you deserve to get eaten. The only people who survive more than a few days are the ones who are already skilled with weapons or who are lucky enough not to get killed until they get skilled. The characters in Walking Dead have had a lot of experience killing these creatures and their weapon skills should reflect that. They also seem to have developed special techniques specifically to use against these creatures.

The safest way for unskilled people to kill zombies would be to work in pairs. Start by knocking it down with long polearms. Once on the ground, one person uses his weapon to hold it in place while the second person hits the head until it stops moving.

[Crakkerjakk]

Also I'd say in America the most likely (and the most likely to at least have a point in the Sport version for most people) weapon to go after zombies with is going to be a baseball bat.

[barna10]

This is realistic for the start of the game. After a session, the players should put a point into Axe/Mace or some other weapon skill to reflect what they've learned.

Also, there should be player deaths early in the game! Survival doesn't mean anything if it's the only possible outcome!

I'd allow the players to keep reusing the same characters, just with different names, to save time during the game. Maybe reward Character Points after each encounter instead of each session to really award survival. This would classify as an "Intense Learning Scenario" and you would learn something every minute you stayed alive. If you do this, the character's could dedicate a CP to whatever skill is necessary to use that improvised weapon after surviving one battle. They could then work on negating the Improvised Weapon penalty with a technique with each subsequent battle.

[RyanW]

Originally Posted by barna10

Also, there should be player deaths early in the game! Survival doesn't mean anything if it's the only possible outcome!

Wow, that's hardcore. Dark Dungeons got nothing on you.

Unless you meant player-character deaths, in which case I agree. :)

[barna10]

Originally Posted by RyanW

Wow, that's hardcore. Dark Dungeons got nothing on you.

Unless you meant player-character deaths, in which case I agree. :)

Lol. Explains why I have no players right now...

[TheOneRonin]

Originally Posted by barna10

This is realistic for the start of the game. After a session, the players should put a point into Axe/Mace or some other weapon skill to reflect what they've learned.

Also, there should be player deaths early in the game! Survival doesn't mean anything if it's the only possible outcome!

I'd allow the players to keep reusing the same characters, just with different names, to save time during the game. Maybe reward Character Points after each encounter instead of each session to really award survival. This would classify as an "Intense Learning Scenario" and you would learn something every minute you stayed alive. If you do this, the character's could dedicate a CP to whatever skill is necessary to use that improvised weapon after surviving one battle. They could then work on negating the Improvised Weapon penalty with a technique with each subsequent battle.

I actually like the idea of awarding CP each session, and letting the characters immediately spend it on skills they used to survive.

Thanks for suggestion!

[Gigermann]

In my After the End campaign, I used the MH3 "slow" zombies but added Supernatural Durability (zombies can't be stunned, or knocked out, much less feel pain in any way), lowered their HP a bit, and added Skinny (easier Knockback). Also, although they don't defend themselves, they are generally moving around, especially when attacking, and should probably invoke speed/jerky-movement penalties to be hit.

The characters were not combat-skilled for the most part, and it showed. The Players were not loving that—there were some instances of genuine frustration—but they understood why and signed off on it.

For one, I think there's a tendency to think that failing to do damage this turn isn't realistic, but in reality, I expect there'd be a lot of flailing about trying to hit the skull/head and either missing entirely in the heat of the moment, or not connecting with the necessary force/angle—a "miss" doesn't necessarily mean no contact. This is counter to the typical cinematic depiction, and is why I generally allow Impulse Buys for combat rolls.

[TheOneRonin]

Originally Posted by Crakkerjakk

Also I'd say in America the most likely (and the most likely to at least have a point in the Sport version for most people) weapon to go after zombies with is going to be a baseball bat.

So how would you handle that? 1 point in Sports (Baseball) lets a character swing a bat at a Zombie at DX -1?

Makes sense to me.

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by TheOneRonin

So how would you handle that? 1 point in Sports (Baseball) lets a character swing a bat at a Zombie at DX -1?

Makes sense to me.

All-Out Telegraphic Attacks to the skull are at Skill-1. Evaluate for a few seconds and you can get to Skill+2 or Skill+3. Against a DX-4 default, that is indeed DX-1.