Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-12-2018, 12:42 PM   #11
Icelander
 
Icelander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#52): Extra Attack

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
Sorry, I meant in official works.
Fair enough, but note that you don't really have to buy any other Advantages to use Extra Attack with guns, as long as you are not Aiming. With Multistrike, you can use the same gun to shoot two or three people in one second, yes, but even without it and without Advantages for dual-wielding guns; you can combine unarmed Disarm with immediately shooting the foe in the same turn, kicking one foe while shooting another, etc.

The kind of stuff you do in Gun-Fu.
__________________
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!
Icelander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2018, 12:57 PM   #12
Kelly Pedersen
 
Kelly Pedersen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Saskatoon, SK, Canada
Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#52): Extra Attack

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
The kind of stuff you do in Gun-Fu.
Quite correct, and in fact, Gun-Fu quite clearly states that Extra Attack is useful for cinematic gunfighters (calling it "the Rolls-Royce of two-fisted-shooting abilities", in fact), and several of the styles in Gun-Fu list Extra Attack as an optional advantage or otherwise encourage people to take it. So I'd say Extra Attack is absolutely appropriate for ranged combatants as well as melee.
Kelly Pedersen is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2018, 03:29 PM   #13
AlexanderHowl
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#52): Extra Attack

Why? Extra Attack is 25 points while DWA (Pistol) is a realistic technique by RAW. Even if you want to dual wield SMGs in a realistic game, I think that you get better results from buying an extra four levels of Guns and just sucking up the penalty because it is only 16 points versus 25 points. Now, if you want to kick or grapple in the same turn as firing a pistol or SMG, I can see it being worthwhile for the cool factor, but I think the guy who bought an extra four levels of Guns is probably better off in the long run.
AlexanderHowl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2018, 04:39 PM   #14
Kelly Pedersen
 
Kelly Pedersen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Saskatoon, SK, Canada
Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#52): Extra Attack

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
Why? Extra Attack is 25 points while DWA (Pistol) is a realistic technique by RAW.
You can trade one extra attack for a dual-weapon attack. So it makes sense to buy up Dual-Weapon Attack first, certainly, but after that, if you want more attacks, Extra Attack is the best way to get them.
Kelly Pedersen is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2018, 06:18 AM   #15
Devil_Dante
 
Devil_Dante's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Italy, Rome
Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#52): Extra Attack

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen View Post
You can trade one extra attack for a dual-weapon attack. So it makes sense to buy up Dual-Weapon Attack first, certainly, but after that, if you want more attacks, Extra Attack is the best way to get them.
That's the point. If you want to fire with 2 pistols, you can't use both extra attack and dual weapon attack.
Devil_Dante is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2018, 07:53 AM   #16
Kelly Pedersen
 
Kelly Pedersen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Saskatoon, SK, Canada
Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#52): Extra Attack

Quote:
Originally Posted by Devil_Dante View Post
That's the point. If you want to fire with 2 pistols, you can't use both extra attack and dual weapon attack.
Well, that's a bit ambiguous. On the one hand, Gun-Fu suggests that Extra Attack and Dual-Weapon Attack are redundant. On the other hand, the rule in Campaigns (p. B417) says "If you already have multiple attacks – for instance, from an Extra Attack (p. 53) – you may “trade” only one of these for a Dual-Weapon Attack." Going by that,it seems to me that if you have an Extra Attack and Dual-Weapon Attack bought up to full, you should be able to attack three times, at 0/0/0 (assuming you've bought off the off-hand penalty somehow as well).
Kelly Pedersen is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2018, 08:01 AM   #17
Devil_Dante
 
Devil_Dante's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Italy, Rome
Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#52): Extra Attack

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen View Post
Well, that's a bit ambiguous. On the one hand, Gun-Fu suggests that Extra Attack and Dual-Weapon Attack are redundant. On the other hand, the rule in Campaigns (p. B417) says "If you already have multiple attacks – for instance, from an Extra Attack (p. 53) – you may “trade” only one of these for a Dual-Weapon Attack." Going by that,it seems to me that if you have an Extra Attack and Dual-Weapon Attack bought up to full, you should be able to attack three times, at 0/0/0 (assuming you've bought off the off-hand penalty somehow as well).
yes, you could potentialy attack three times if you have 3 pistols, one per hand. But an human has 2 hands, so 2 pistols. But, if you are firing at point blank (aka, C range) you can: fire with first pistol, fire with second pistol (dual weapon attack) and kick with extra attack. Or headbutt him, or elbow strike him..
The number one rule is always: one attack per limb. So, even if you can mix extra attack with DWA, you can't because with either extra attack or DWA you have already used that particular limb.

And for the melee fight is the same. You can use DWA to attack with secondary limb and use extra attack to attack with "another" limb. So, if you are fighting with rapier and main-gauche, you can't extra attack and DWA attack for 2 times with rapier and one with main-gauche, nor 1 time with rapier and 2 with main-gauche. Still, you can one with rapier, one with main-gauche and one with kick/head/teeth/whatever.

If you have multistrike, you can use one limb 2 times, but with "gun", i suppose you still can't do it, because of rate of fire: rof should suppose to be the mechanical limit of the weapon.
Devil_Dante is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2018, 08:44 AM   #18
Icelander
 
Icelander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#52): Extra Attack

Quote:
Originally Posted by Devil_Dante View Post
If you have multistrike, you can use one limb 2 times, but with "gun", i suppose you still can't do it, because of rate of fire: rof should suppose to be the mechanical limit of the weapon.
Sure you can. Most modern firearms will have RoF 2+, generally RoF 3 for semi-automatics. You can split these between your attacks as you please, attacking more than one target, whether you are using Extra Attack or the Quick-Shot technique to get more than one attack.

If you need higher RoF than 3 for your semi-automatic weapon, perhaps because you have Extra Attack and Quick-Shot technique at full skill, well, then you need to improve the Fast-Firing technique.

Extra Attack plays very nice with Gun-Fu, just as it does with other kinds of martial arts.
__________________
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!
Icelander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2018, 09:15 AM   #19
Devil_Dante
 
Devil_Dante's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Italy, Rome
Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#52): Extra Attack

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
Sure you can. Most modern firearms will have RoF 2+, generally RoF 3 for semi-automatics. You can split these between your attacks as you please attacking more than one target, whether you are using Extra Attack or the Quick-Shot technique to get more than one attack.

If you need higher RoF than 3 for your semi-automatic weapon, perhaps because you have Extra Attack and Quick-Shot technique at full skill, well, then you need to improve the Fast-Firing technique.

Extra Attack plays very nice with Gun-Fu, just as it does with other kinds of martial arts.
You can do it till the rof: if your weapon has rof 3, you can't use multistrike to attack with this weapon twice, because its mechanical limit is 3. The gear won't work any faster. The pistol won't shot more than 3 bullets in one second. Doens't matter if you have altered time rate or multystrike 5.
You can use fast firing technique, of course, if the weapon can be used such way

Extra attack is still usefull to shot to different targets. Indeed, Gun fu says you can attack different target with different attack. But, because you can buy only one level in extra attack, is generally better buy-off the fast firing technique (quick-shot, 6 points).

Another good way is to learn the whirlwind technique (5 points), but you lose defenses.
Devil_Dante is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2018, 09:27 AM   #20
Icelander
 
Icelander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#52): Extra Attack

Quote:
Originally Posted by Devil_Dante View Post
You can do it till the rof: if your weapon has rof 3, you can't use multistrike to attack with this weapon twice, because its mechanical limit is 3. The gear won't work any faster. The pistol won't shot more than 3 bullets in one second. Doens't matter if you have altered time rate or multystrike 5.
You can use fast firing technique, of course, if the weapon can be used such way

Extra attack is still usefull to shot to different targets. Indeed, Gun fu says you can attack different target with different attack. But, because you can buy only one level in extra attack, is generally better buy-off the fast firing technique (quick-shot, 6 points).

Another good way is to learn the whirlwind technique (5 points), but you lose defenses.
Semi-automatic firearms actually have a much higher mechanical cyclic rate than 3 per second. The RoF 3 is a limitation based on how fast most normal people can pull a trigger and still be firing somewhat accurately.

The Fast-Firing technique is training in firing semi-automatic firearms faster than their RoF 3. You can fire at any RoF from ROF 4-9, but faster than RoF 6 is usually counterproductive even if you have training in the technique.

The technique is in GURPS High-Tech, but that version is too harshly penalised to reflect reality and after some further research, an updated version of the technique appeared in GURPS Tactical Shooting.

I have a character in an ongoing campaign who has Extra Attack (Multistrike); Fast-Firing at full skill and Quick-Shot at full skill. He also has sense-based superpowers from Enhanced Senses, among the ability to have his eyes function as targeting sensors with rangefinding, which he can use while taking another action (complicated build, based on buying modifiers to base Senses), and Enhanced Tracking (Multiple Lock-ons).

At CQC ranges, Chase Taylor can get a flash sight picture and engage three targets in one second with quick double taps to center mass, RoF 6, and never miss once except on critical failures. If he slows down to two targets per second, he can put a controlled pair or three shots rapid into the head of them both at any range up to, more or less, the mechanical accuracy of the weapon.

So, his Extra Attack is, as yet, only useful at short ranges and hand-to-hand, but he certainly uses it with his Guns skill. And when he upgrades his Enhanced Tracking, he can engage up to three targets with aimed fire per turn.

When he doesn't have this many targets, he'll just fire controlled pairs until the target is down. Two controlled pairs to the pelvis, one controlled pair to the head. Better than just a single attack at RoF 6, because this way, you don't have to succeed by 10+ so that all of your rounds hit precisely where you aimed them.
__________________
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!

Last edited by Icelander; 02-13-2018 at 09:41 AM.
Icelander is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
advantage, advantage of the week, extra attack, week, [basic]

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:17 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.