How Would GURPS Rules Need To Be Changed For A Computer Game?

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by scc

Yes, there is, it's your current XP total, it's displayed when you die.

I've never seen that as 'scoring' since it's tied directly to the magic crafting system.

(Unless things have changed since I last played... oh... like 4 years ago now?)

[tshiggins]

Originally Posted by wmervine4

After posting my long reply, I had two other thoughts on this topic I felt were worth sharing.

(SNIP)

Second, I was thinking about survival mode I've seen in some video games lately (e.g., Fallout 4). Some hardcore gamers really want a challenge beyond simply bashing on bad guys, so survival mode typically provides that by forcing players to consider encumbrance, eating/drinking, sleeping, staying protected in extreme temperatures, avoiding disease, and limited save opportunities. From what I have experienced in these modes, they do add interesting elements to the game, but dealing with some is either easily avoid (e.g., extreme cold is avoided by wearing warm enough clothing) or uncontrollably annoying (e.g., randomly catching a disease that is difficult to cure while sleeping). GURPS nicely provides many gradual effects to deal with these situations like FP loss from missed sleep, starvation, dehydration, heat, and cold. GURPS could expand in many areas by using the rules for FP loss for overexertion, running, and swimming; applying effects from acids, irritating and incapacitating conditions, pressure effects, and suffocation to name a few. GURPS also has extensive rules for diseases, poisons, and infections from wounds. If you wanted to get really harsh about it, you could even employ The Last Gasp rules. When it comes to survival mode, I think GURPS has a great framework for applying real consequences to ignoring your character's needs.

I think GURPS would be perfect for a survival game, myself, and those are very popular these days. However, there's a significant schism in the community who call first-person shooters with random loot-drops that allow construction of bases a "survival game," and the more hard-core crowd who want the ability to hunt, gather, craft and farm, and who also want to have to worry about food, water, exposure and wild animals*.

GURPS could do either of those things well, and is (I think) uniquely suited to do a game that could appeal to both. Personally, I like the notion of a Robinson Crusoe type of game, where someone gets marooned on an island, somewhere, and must figure out how to survive.

Make it a TL 5 setting (circa 1850, or so), and a skilled craftsman can make just about any technology routinely available to normal people. My friend Dave points out that one of the unique things about the U.S. Civil War is that it marked pretty much the last time that the soldiers who fought in it could make most of their gear, themselves -- especially the Yankee craftsmen on the Union side of things. Give those guys a workshop and they could pretty much produce just about anything short of a high-pressure steam-engine (and they could repair one of those).

That said, such a setting would need a lot to offer, since people on the FPS side of the schism really like their automatic weapons. Given that SJ Games has a solid core of "After the End" material, a post-apocalyptic setting might be the way to go.

However, if you do that, you're walking into a market that's pretty saturated with exactly that sort of computer game, right now. You'd need a really different take, or you'd need an instantly-recognized and wildly-popular franchise, (Mad Max, or something), which you're not going to get without a seriously loaded and somewhat eccentric angel investor.

*For sufficiently broad definitions of "wild animals" that may include zombies or fantastic creatures.

(Copied this over to the other thread, where it may be more appropriate.)

[starslayer]

Originally Posted by tshiggins

I think GURPS would be perfect for a survival game, myself, and those are very popular these days. However, there's a significant schism in the community who call first-person shooters with random loot-drops that allow construction of bases a "survival game," and the more hard-core crowd who want the ability to hunt, gather, craft and farm, and who also want to have to worry about food, water, exposure and wild animals*.

GURPS could do either of those things well, and is (I think) uniquely suited to do a game that could appeal to both. Personally, I like the notion of a Robinson Crusoe type of game, where someone gets marooned on an island, somewhere, and must figure out how to survive.

Make it a TL 5 setting (circa 1850, or so), and a skilled craftsman can make just about any technology routinely available to normal people. My friend Dave points out that one of the unique things about the U.S. Civil War is that it marked pretty much the last time that the soldiers who fought in it could make most of their gear, themselves -- especially the Yankee craftsmen on the Union side of things. Give those guys a workshop and they could pretty much produce just about anything short of a high-pressure steam-engine (and they could repair one of those).

That said, such a setting would need a lot to offer, since people on the FPS side of the schism really like their automatic weapons. Given that SJ Games has a solid core of "After the End" material, a post-apocalyptic setting might be the way to go.

However, if you do that, you're walking into a market that's pretty saturated with exactly that sort of computer game, right now. You'd need a really different take, or you'd need an instantly-recognized and wildly-popular franchise, (Mad Max, or something), which you're not going to get without a seriously loaded and somewhat eccentric angel investor.

*For sufficiently broad definitions of "wild animals" that may include zombies or fantastic creatures.

(Copied this over to the other thread, where it may be more appropriate.)

So Unreal World: Powered by GURPS?

[draxdeveloper]

About level and progression, we have CP.
If the game designer want to reward small actions an not just quests, then you can do two things:
1) create a frag CP, a fragment of a CP (like, 0,1 CP) that each action combat would reward, but it have to be a curve tending to 0 if you keep repeating the same action... So is kind of a complex solution.
2) you can make bonus CP in the quests

Have to say that, anyway, can't see a game based on GURPS happening

[AlexanderHowl]

Or you could have monetary rewards, social rewards, etc. For example, a fantasy game might use the enchantment through deeds rules, meaning that quests could give energy that would improve the equipment worn during the quest.

[JMason]

The Shadowrun PC games, IIRC, give CP like rewards for completing quests and side objectives. And I've seen other games that use an XP system that when you level, doesn't give anything for "free" but just hands the player a handful of points they can use to increase Skills or other character traits.

To be honest I am not that familiar with the Shaowrun table top game, so I don't know how close the video games (specifically Returns, Dragonfall, and Hong Kong) come to it. That said, I can imagine a GUPRS video game being similar to them, with turn based combat, skill checks, CP rewards, etc.

[wmervine4]

Oh, I've got one. Healing rules. Especially if one were to create any type of action RPG DF-style game, many players would probably not like the harshness of -3 per cumulative casting of the same healing spell on the same character in a given day. Also, the rules around Natural Recovery (B424) are very harsh since you only recover a single HP each day and only if you rest and have decent food. Gamers that like the hack n' slash style of play would probably feel like the restrictions around healing were too restrictive.

This could work though in a game where one wanted to highlight the harshness of combat and resource management aspects of healing up afterwards. I'm sure it wouldn't appeal to everyone, but there certainly are hardcore gamers that want to play games in the harshest difficulty modes just for the challenge of it. The GURPS rules around recovery, infections, crippling injuries, disease, and many others could really add a lot of variables to contend with for hardcore gamers seeking difficult challenges.

[AlexanderHowl]

If combat is very dangerous and hard to recover from, it would be a good reason for a stealth-based game.

[wmervine4]

Heading back towards the OP's question, maybe it's not so much a matter of changing the GURPS rules for a computer game, but rather adding clarity and specific guidelines for existing rules that are intentionally vague to allow GMs to apply common sense specific to situations encountered in their particular games. Many rules are also vague due to the need to remain generic and universal so the rules can be used across settings, genres, etc.

For a really generic example that is core to the system mechanics, consider skill use and in particular, the effects of a critical success or critical failure. In some cases, a skill explicitly states what the effects of a critical success or critical failure are. With combat skills, there are tables that define the effects clearly. For other skills, it's more open-ended. A game would need specific parameters defined around what the tangible effects are for critical success or critical failure with any skill use.

The needs of a specific computer game will tend to drive which parts of the GURPS rules need more definition or even outright changed in some instances. If done well, this could give a computer game a very GURPS-y feel. It's possible that quantifying how specific rules work for the purpose of a computer game would give GURPS enthusiasts more insight into how similar situations could be handled at the table. Win-win!

[tshiggins]

Originally Posted by starslayer

So Unreal World: Powered by GURPS?

I don't particularly care for Rogue-like games, but yeah, something like that idea only implemented with a first-person point of view. I'd also want an MMORPG, and not a single-player, although you could start out with a single-player game and build it out, iteratively.

I'd even have the game start with each player on a sea voyage, c. 1850, when a banestorm manifests and pulls his or her ship into a different world. Mostly, it's the same as Earth -- but only mostly. I'd add some fantastic elements for the players to slowly discover.

The character gets built ahead of time -- either use a template as-is, or do some modifications, or (or for more advanced players), build one from scratch. Use the GURPS skill system, as much as possible, and add in some advantages and (maybe...) some disads suitable to a computer game.

The character wakes up after the storm, on a small atoll , with the wreck of the ship in shallow water, visible, but a ways offshore. In that sense, it starts off a bit similar to Stranded Deep, but it's more granular and skill-based.

Scavenge what washed ashore with you; locate a source of fresh water (a spring in some cases, a coconut grove in others, the ability to create an evaporative purifier, perhaps...); and then get some food; and then take stock of what's available on the island. Build a raft or something, to get out to the wreck, where at least one significant predator has been drawn to the bodies. Use fatigue as well as HP, and enforce encumbrance rules using GURPS so it's similar to, for instance, The Long Dark.

Salvage what you can, fight off the critter, get what you've found back to the island, and realize you'll use up the food available faster than it can replenish itself, but fishing can extend that. Use the salvaged gear to build a larger vessel (a character with a "Survival" skill builds a raft or dugout canoe; one with the skill "Carpentry" builds a better raft or dugout; one with Area Knowledge (Polynesia) builds a large outrigger dugout; one with "Carpentry" and "Boating" can fix the hole in the side of the whale-boat or wooden dinghy found on the wreck; a character with "Carpentry" and "Boating" and "Crewman (Sailing Ship)" can add a mast and maybe a keel or leeboards to the repaired whaleboat) that allows escape to a different island. Find a tall island (the remnants of an old volcano), which is larger and has more resources (and dangers), and perhaps eventually discover a continent with many secrets.

Allow crafting mini-games of all sorts, give characters the ability to trade with one another from the get-go (but only if they're face-to-face -- no EVE-type markets), and let the characters teach each other skills. Allow the characters to set up cooperative endeavors, so they can accomplish things together that neither could do alone (for instance, if a character with an "Engineering" skill has enough ropes and pulleys, he or she sets up a block-and-tackle, and more than one character can pull on the rope to lift heavy objects -- stuff like that).

Basically, the rules of a game influence how the players will play that game. If all you have is combat, then combat is all anybody will do. Allow crafting and trade, and permit players to set up safe areas where (for instance) they can create unique structures if their characters have the right skills -- or if multiple characters have the right combinations of skills, and agree to cooperate under a character with (say) the skill, "Administration."

Maybe let them declare their characters as part of a defense militia when the player is off-line, and allow someone playing a character with military skills to set up 1850s style lines of battle to defend the settlement.

Implement as many options as possible, for the characters to choose from, and all sorts of emergent game-play occurs.