3 Character Types: Fighter, Wizard, Mixed (Bard, Cleric, Monk)

[hcobb]

Originally Posted by Infornific

Interesting system, but what exactly is CP based on? Not quite seeing how starting characters would be 33 cp.

32 attribute points at 1 CP (100 XP) each, plus 1 CP for $1000 in starting gear. (I.e. 100 gold pieces, i.e. 100 XP by ITL 46).

This balances out skilled but poor vs munchkins with gear, to some extent. (Compare Eyes Behind from a magic item vs a talent.)

[David Bofinger]

I often see people propose a wizardry talent, but hardly ever a heroism talent. That is, they treat hero as the default and wizard as the exception, whereas TFT regards them as coequal.

[David Bofinger]

I had a generalist talent that was intermediate between hero and wizard. If you want it to be superior to both wizards and heroes for some choice of talent-spell mix then the price it pays needs to be cheap, like all spells and talents cost 1.25 or something like that.

[David Bofinger]

I tried a druid class once but specifying exactly which spells and talents it could have cheap was annoying. In some ways a more generic college system, where all spells and talents were split up into categories, and a PC could choose which categories were cheap, would be better. Or, ditch the classes altogether.

[Shostak]

Originally Posted by David Bofinger

I often see people propose a wizardry talent, but hardly ever a heroism talent. That is, they treat hero as the default and wizard as the exception, whereas TFT regards them as coequal.

As the saying goes, “some are more equal than others,” since heroes learn spells at 300% list price with no exception, whereas wizards learn most talents at 200% list price and a few at list.

[David Bofinger]

Originally Posted by Chris Rice

Hedge Wizard/Witch. IQ 8 cost 3 [...] They can learn spells up to IQ 12 at normal cost. If they wish to learn spells beyond IQ 12 the cost is double and take twice as long to learn.

This creates a discontinuity in spells: IQ 13 spells are much harder to learn than IQ 12 ones, which wasn't the intent of SJ when he wrote the spell list.

True Wizard. IQ 14 cost 4. This represents someone who has had formal training in Magic either in a school or via direct apprenticeship. [...] These are the Wizards as they currently exist in TFT.

Most people who have freshly graduated from a wizard guild school probably don't have IQ 14. Many will never have it in their career. The Entwhistles of Bendwyn, for instance, are obviously supposed to be proper wizards with a library and everything, and they are IQ 11. IQ 14 is supposed to be a bit exceptional, much smarter than the average bear, rather than a qualification for an entry level job.

IQ 14 will become a magic number: you'll see lots more PCs generated at IQ 14 and very few at IQ 13.

They must be literate and will know the Sorcerors Tongue.

They get it for free, or they have to buy it as well? I suggest making Sorcerer's Tongue a prerequisite for your talent.

I think you need to rethink this.

[David Bofinger]

Originally Posted by flankspeed

I really like the idea of making Wizard abilities into Talents rather than something they get for free that Hero characters will never be able to obtain.

I think this is probably the way to go. Some other talents that might be worth looking at:

• Rapid Casting: Ability to cast magic in one turn without DX penalty rather than more slowly or with DX penalty (wizard's choice). Some town wizards don't have this.
• Self-Defence: Enemies roll 3/DX to hit you instead of 2/DX. Some wizards, skill monkeys and peasants, maybe even some archers, don't buy this.
• Any wizard who wants to fight with a staff should buy the relevant weapon talent (Knife, Sword, Quarterstaff).

You might want to hand out some extra talent points so PCs can pay for all this.

[TippetsTX]

I understand why some folks want to turn 'wizarding' into a talent-based ability or create a set of mage-friendly talents, but each of those solutions have undesirable effects IMO. The first creates a talent (or talents) that don't function like any other talent in the game; talents that gatekeep an entirely different framework of abilities (spells)... as well as the 'magic number' effects that David points out. The latter, while probably less distruptive system-wise, creates a new sub-set of talents that require spellcasting as a prerequisite. I think we need a third option for those kinds of powers.

I prefer a clear separation between mundane and magical abilities, but I suppose I don't see that difference the same way most others do. The separation between Wizard and Hero aren't class-based distinctions for me, they're more fundamental. My stance has always been that "wizards are born, not made". It's a genetic predisposition which the player chooses at creation; a decision that determines how the character will perceive and interact w/ the game world.

That said, I do think moderating the cross-platform costs post character-creation is desirable.

[David Bofinger]

Originally Posted by Shostak

As the saying goes, “some are more equal than others,” since heroes learn spells at 300% list price with no exception, whereas wizards learn most talents at 200% list price and a few at list.

If you're saying that Cidri is a wizard's world and the heroes just live in it then there's an element of truth to that but I think it's a different issue from whether you treat the two classes philosophically as one deriving from the other.

[Shostak]

Originally Posted by TippetsTX

I prefer a clear separation between mundane and magical abilities, but I suppose I don't see that difference the same way most others do. The separation between Wizard and Hero aren't class-based distinctions for me, they're more fundamental. My stance has always been that "wizards are born, not made". It's a genetic predisposition which the player chooses at creation; a decision that determines how the character will perceive and interact w/ the game world.

A Wizarding talent does not, by itself, contradict the desire to have wizards “born, not made.” while one could say that it is a talent like any other, and one could easily declare that it represents learning allowed by some kind of genetic disposition. Furthermore, it is up to the GM as to whether or not to allow anyone to take this talent after character generation.

The point of the talent is not to create baked-in assumptions about the difference between wizards and mundanes, but to add a bit of balance to create better (or at least desired by some people) balance for those with the ability to cast spells.