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Old 07-17-2016, 03:44 PM   #11
johndallman
 
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Default Re: [Basic] Skill of the week: Photography

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Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth View Post
While Photography's description opens with and kind of focuses on the technical, I think the trailing note that it enables one to "produce recognizable and attractive photos" and its placement in the Gifted Artist talent imply that the skill can be used for artistic photography, photographic composition, and the like.
Indeed, but you can also do artistic work with EO (Media).

Trained Photography at TL5-7 includes darkroom work, which is more than Machine Operation (Cameras), but the situation isn't really satisfactory. One could always introduce a new Artist specialisation with a default to MO (Cameras), and that might be a better solution; I think there have been good artistic photographers who weren't technically skilful.

Last edited by johndallman; 07-17-2016 at 03:48 PM.
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Old 07-17-2016, 03:58 PM   #12
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Default Re: [Basic] Skill of the week: Photography

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Originally Posted by johndallman View Post
Trained Photography at TL5-7 includes darkroom work, which is more than Machine Operation (Cameras), but the situation isn't really satisfactory. One could always introduce a new Artist specialisation with a default to MO (Cameras), and that might be a better solution; I think there have been good artistic photographers who weren't technically skilful.
Oh, I like that. Much more elegant. Maybe I'll use it as a house rule.
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Old 07-19-2016, 01:08 PM   #13
Edo
 
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Default Re: [Basic] Skill of the week: Photography

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Originally Posted by Žorkell View Post
That -3 for motion picture cameras strikes me as weird. As far as I can tell motion picture cameras are way different from still cameras, the lenses focus differently (as I understand it there's a second man on whose job is to handle the focus of the lens, the focus puller) and use t-stops rather than f-stops.

There is a photography book on the wishlist, I'd love to see that written. I don't think I have enough knowhow to write it myself.

Oh, and yes, Photography is a hobby of mine.
IIRC motion-picture film has to be developed differently too. I remember a horror story about someone cutting strips of 35mm movie film for camera use; the heat-resistant coating caused the lab a few thousand dollars of ruined chemical baths and angry customers.

I grew up with shop talk; my parents were professional photographers at TL7. (Emphasis on "were"; we never really recovered from the industry shift to TL8.)
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Old 05-20-2017, 11:02 AM   #14
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Default Re: [Basic] Skill of the week: Photography

A quick question why is Photography IQ/A when all other Artist skills are IQ/H?
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Old 05-20-2017, 11:15 AM   #15
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Default Re: [Basic] Skill of the week: Photography

My best guess is that because a lot of the work is done for you by nature.

In comparison to drawing, for example, you don't have the chance to mess up on each line, and on each piece of shading. You do have to find or pose your pictures, and can't create images from nothing, but the technical task of making an image is far easier.
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Old 05-20-2017, 11:17 AM   #16
whswhs
 
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Default Re: [Basic] Skill of the week: Photography

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Originally Posted by johndallman View Post
My best guess is that because a lot of the work is done for you by nature.

In comparison to drawing, for example, you don't have the chance to mess up on each line, and on each piece of shading. You do have to find or pose your pictures, and can't create images from nothing, but the technical task of making an image is far easier.
That suggests that using a camera obscura would make Artist (Drawing) an Average skill, or maybe just give +1 to the roll (effectively the same thing).
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Old 05-20-2017, 11:19 AM   #17
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Default Re: [Basic] Skill of the week: Photography

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Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
That suggests that using a camera obscura would make Artist (Drawing) an Average skill, or maybe just give +1 to the roll (effectively the same thing).
I can certainly believe the +1, after a little familiarisation, or an optional specialisation in using a Camera Obscura.
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Old 05-20-2017, 05:49 PM   #18
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Default Re: [Basic] Skill of the week: Photography

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Originally Posted by solidsingularity View Post
A quick question why is Photography IQ/A when all other Artist skills are IQ/H?
Quote:
Originally Posted by johndallman View Post
My best guess is that because a lot of the work is done for you by nature.

In comparison to drawing, for example, you don't have the chance to mess up on each line, and on each piece of shading. You do have to find or pose your pictures, and can't create images from nothing, but the technical task of making an image is far easier.
My instinctive reaction to this (as the third generation child of photographers, and partner of a photographer who is also a child of photographers) is irritable hand waving and ranting about elitist visual arts students who claim photography isn't a "real" art, it's "just" a craft.

The technical task of making an image that looks like a photograph is easier (surprise surprise), the camera is a better tool for that than a paintbrush. In my experience, however, many "images that look like photographs" look like the photographs you see on random facebook profiles: flash is on, focusing on the wrong object or completely out of focus, photographer's fingers in shot accidentally, not cropped, subject is badly framed, and/or a zillion filters, stickers, and lens-flares.

Those are the crooked stick figures of photography, and just because they're easy to produce doesn't make actual uses of the art skill any easier or harder :P

Painters don't accidentally get their subject out of focus. Painters don't worry about getting their fingers, elbows, or foot in the shot. Painters don't have to look out for photobombing family members or house pets. Painters very rarely have to worry about cutting the families heads off by accident (although at default use everybody sucks at composition).

Of course, these days painters can be just as guilty of a zillion filters, stickers, and lens-flares.

rant rant rant rant rant.
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Old 05-21-2017, 05:54 PM   #19
Žorkell
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Default Re: [Basic] Skill of the week: Photography

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Originally Posted by Bruno View Post
The technical task of making an image that looks like a photograph is easier (surprise surprise), the camera is a better tool for that than a paintbrush. In my experience, however, many "images that look like photographs" look like the photographs you see on random facebook profiles: flash is on, focusing on the wrong object or completely out of focus, photographer's fingers in shot accidentally, not cropped, subject is badly framed, and/or a zillion filters, stickers, and lens-flares.
Are those things the results of Photography skill or lack thereof? I have found that people that aren't into photography have a much more relaxed attitude to what is a good photo. The photo can have any or all of those things mentioned above and the non-photographers will deem it a good photo. I've had people making fun of me fussing about (iow looking for a good angle etc.) when taking a photo and telling me to just take the damn photo.

And FWIW, at least one pro-photographer I know intentionally shoots from time to time so as to get lens-flare.
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Old 05-23-2017, 01:25 AM   #20
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Default Re: [Basic] Skill of the week: Photography

Best use of Photography I've seen in play (possibly also the only one) was in my old 3rd ed Cliffhangers campaign.
In Goslar, Germany in 1936 or so we were investigating a mystery concerning either a werewolf or a space-alien. Out tabloid journalist was about to develop important photos, assisted by the Texan stuntman- The latter wanted to help, using only (a none too good IQ-)default in order to have en excuse for putting points in the skill.
A Critical Failure was rolled, the GM ruled the Texan had put out his cigar using a container of flamable liquid. There was a 'slight' fire-mishap in the hotel room.
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