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Old 11-01-2015, 05:01 AM   #11
Gold & Appel Inc
 
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Default Re: [Martial Arts] Aquatic Styles: Sahuagin (Shark Men)

Nah, that's all I can think of from Martial Arts. I don't have the other relevant books yet, though, so I could be missing something.

In defense of keeping the Stunning effect for a successful Judo Throw underwater, IMHO it seems likely that being tossed or yanked into an unexpected rotation would put somebody out of the action for at least a round if they fail to resist, while they reorient themselves. I'd probably call it best of DX, Aquabatics, or Body Sense instead of HT to resist and recover.
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Old 11-01-2015, 09:08 AM   #12
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Default Re: [Martial Arts] Aquatic Styles: Sahuagin (Shark Men)

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Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
This argues for a very high Wrestling skill. Sumo Wrestling and Judo both seem contraindicated.
Why would Sumo be contraindicated? I would think that slams are appropriate attacks for swimmers. Certainly if Melville is to be believed it is used by whales. There are videos of orcas slamming sharks too. For that matter videos of great white attacks on seals suggest a slam/throw to stun the seal before biting it.

Also there is something called tonic immobility which puts some sharks into a trance state. That might make for a cool technique.
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Old 11-01-2015, 03:06 PM   #13
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Default Re: [Martial Arts] Aquatic Styles: Sahuagin (Shark Men)

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Originally Posted by RobKamm View Post
...
Also there is something called tonic immobility which puts some sharks into a trance state. That might make for a cool technique.
I feel that that's related to hypnosis. Only for many "primitive" animals unusual body positions and some slight distracting motion induce it.
I've seen it done on chickens too.

I don't remember ever seeing it done on an alert wary animal.
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Old 11-01-2015, 03:10 PM   #14
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Default Re: [Martial Arts] Aquatic Styles: Sahuagin (Shark Men)

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Originally Posted by RobKamm View Post
Why would Sumo be contraindicated? I would think that slams are appropriate attacks for swimmers. Certainly if Melville is to be believed it is used by whales. There are videos of orcas slamming sharks too. For that matter videos of great white attacks on seals suggest a slam/throw to stun the seal before biting it.
...
Slams are used very effectively by dolphins against sharks so often that many sharks will skedaddle the moment they notice cetaceans in the area.
Though I think they know to slam the sensitive gill slits equating to some kind of Targeted Attack skill.

Whales and sharks tossing/slamming comparatively tiny animals/objects might not work for OP's M.A.
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Old 11-01-2015, 03:32 PM   #15
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Default Re: [Martial Arts] Aquatic Styles: Sahuagin (Shark Men)

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Originally Posted by Flyndaran View Post
Though I think they know to slam the sensitive gill slits equating to some kind of Targeted Attack skill.
They do, but you don't need Targeted Attack to attack a specific hit location - it just reduces the penalties.
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Old 11-18-2015, 09:58 AM   #16
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Default Re: [Martial Arts] Aquatic Styles: Sahuagin (Shark Men)

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Originally Posted by RobKamm View Post
Why would Sumo be contraindicated? I would think that slams are appropriate attacks for swimmers. Certainly if Melville is to be believed it is used by whales. There are videos of orcas slamming sharks too. For that matter videos of great white attacks on seals suggest a slam/throw to stun the seal before biting it.
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Originally Posted by Flyndaran View Post
Slams are used very effectively by dolphins against sharks so often that many sharks will skedaddle the moment they notice cetaceans in the area.
Though I think they know to slam the sensitive gill slits equating to some kind of Targeted Attack skill.

Whales and sharks tossing/slamming comparatively tiny animals/objects might not work for OP's M.A.
Slams are a very common and effective form of attack underwater, but:

a) Sumo Wrestling includes a lot of other stuff other than slams and a character who will never grapple, shove, sweep or perform Actions After a Grapple might be better off with just Brawling. Especially if a Perk is allowed to grant unarmed slams a Brawling skill-based bonus, analoguous to how Shoves and Tackles works with a weapon skill.

b) For maximum effectiveness, characters who rely on slams want higher HP than the targets and/or a reinforced body part with DR that can absorb the damage that they take when slamming. Sahuagin do not have high DR against crushing damage compared to almost any target they might want to slam.

c) Slams allow for high damage, but unarmed slams are still crushing. For a race with claws* and Sharp Teeth, it's kind of a waste to exchange cutting damage for crushing.

d) I'm specifically statting a style for a smaller, more skilful fighter to use in unarmed duels to the death with other, larger sahuagin.

*I'm kind of on the fence whether these are Sharp Claws, Talons or even cutting Strikers with Reach C. Sahuagin do not seem to be at a disadvantage when fighting foes with knifes armed only with tooth and claw and they use weapons mainly to add reach.
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Old 11-18-2015, 10:50 AM   #17
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Default Re: [Martial Arts] Aquatic Styles: Sahuagin (Shark Men)

It would certainly be possible to have sophisticated underwater grappling techniques, but they simply won't look all that much like the ones you use on the surface because of the whole way footing and leverage work underwater; it's probably a straight-up different skill. Various types of joint locks are probably the most transferable, though a lot of those moves would be specific to the morphology of the target and thus anti-sahaugin moves and anti-human moves might not be the same.
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Old 11-18-2015, 02:56 PM   #18
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Default Re: [Martial Arts] Aquatic Styles: Sahuagin (Shark Men)

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It would certainly be possible to have sophisticated underwater grappling techniques, but they simply won't look all that much like the ones you use on the surface because of the whole way footing and leverage work underwater; it's probably a straight-up different skill. Various types of joint locks are probably the most transferable, though a lot of those moves would be specific to the morphology of the target and thus anti-sahaugin moves and anti-human moves might not be the same.
You may wish to give him a technique with Reach that duplicates "sand in the eyes" using a pulse of water created by the tail. It's unorthodox, and might have the advantage of being somewhat concealable to the crowd. Maybe a "secret technique". This guy has to retain the advantages, including surprise, that his personal style offers him. Similarly, sharpened fin spines.

Essentially, baring notably superior agility, a smaller combatant in an unarmed duel should "cheat".

I strongly recommend several false rumors about his legendary Chi, dark blessings or paralyzing gaze. If everyone's expecting the five finger punch of death, because he does it as theater just before his opponents die, they're less likely to look out for the throw/punch combo he actually used to collapse a gill.

Allow him to use Tactics in negotiating the stage for the duels, granting him benefits for "battlespace preparation". The magma vents make a great venue, and it doesn't hurt that the Baron has studied the timing of the steam vents.

Also, the point has been made that slams are common in underwater combat. In that environment, Judo becomes much more useful. One reading of the skill's throw ability could be "divert momentum". Similarly, trips send people tumbling, and without ground they don't stop tumbling as fast.

If you want him using cunning bone breaks, use Wrestling. If you want him evading bone breaks and sending his charging foes tumbling through the water, use Judo.

YMMV
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