06-01-2012, 06:06 PM | #51 |
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Re: GIN Ultra-Lite
That's looking useful, yes! Thank you!
Not sure if we want to keep host's Body Hits, though -- the ability of a Kyriotate to possess someone in trouble and get them out of trouble is something that feels, to me, like a staple of the Choir. Likewise, Shedim possessing someone and turning them into the equivalent of a PCP-berserker would also be a trick that would be lost. Another thematic consideration is that a "brick" (body-guard, thug, etc.) Kyrio/Shedite would be kind of crippled if they couldn't take the damage as well as dish it out. I'm not sure a high Corp-Force celestial should be quite so much of a glass cannon. (Or glass battleaxe, depending.) (That said, "Host's Body Hits" would be an excellent Discord for some of these tankier body-hoppers... *evil grin*) Hmmm. It might be that the thematic choice would be "host's or celestial's Body Hits, whichever is more"? That could be explained as "if the celestial has a strong connection to the Corporeal themes of the Symphony, its supernatural sturdiness shines through (but a Kyriotate, of course, has to be careful not to leave a badly wounded host before healing!) -- but even a poorly-connected celestial still has its host's body as a meat shield." Kyriotates wouldn't be abusing this much because of their dissonance conditions, but Shedim might be a nuisance. It might be worthwhile to give them a risk of dissonance -- and/or some other inconvenience -- at leaving a host to die without the Shedite's CorpForces propping it up, at a minimum. (Leave just before the bullets hit? Fine. Leave after? Maybe the departing soul drags the Shedite along for the ride for a while...) It would also be a feature to give body-hoppers a standard value for Body Hits, rather than re-calculate based on the host each time. Or at least a standard value per Size of host, so a little chart of 1-6 could be used. I almost wonder if they should buy a "Vessel" that is used solely for the Body Hits calculation, or if it would be too complicated/expensive...
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06-01-2012, 08:28 PM | #52 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
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Re: GIN Ultra-Lite
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To me, the benefits that the Bodiless bring to their hosts are the higher characteristics that they probably have due to having more Forces, plus the fact that their typical host is not Symphonically Aware (and thus doesn't have access to Songs, Attunements, or targeted Essence expenditures). Plus the fact that the host counts as a vessel for purposes such as fatigue and exposure to the elements. Still, let's try some alternatives: • Whenever you possess a host, you don't replace its Strength and Body Hits with your own; instead, you adjust them according to what your own Strength and CF are. For Strength, the Bodiless (and celestials with the Song of Possession) record a "host Strength modifier" that's equal to Strength - 10; so a Kyrio with Strength 12 has a "host Strength modifier" of +2, a Kyrio with Strength 10 has a "host Strength modifier" of +0, and a Kyrio with Strength 8 has a "host Strength modifier" of -2. As well, the Bodiless adds a "Body Hit reserve" to the host equal to CF + "host Strength modifier" (minimum of zero): damage to the host is taken off of the Body Hit reserve first. The average Kyrio adds 2 Strength and 5 Body Hits to each host that it possesses, while a physically optimized Kyrio with 6 CF and 18 Strength adds 8 strength and 14 Body Hits to each of its hosts. The one caveat to this is that if you possess a large or huge creature (Size 6+), you benefit from the Strength multiplier: a starting celestial would add +2x3=6 to an elephant's Strength and 5x3=15 to its Body Hits, and a Corporeal-optimized celestial would add +8x3=24 Strength and +14x3=42 Body Hits to the elephant. • Ditch the "host Strength modifier" (instead, use your own Strength as modified by the host's Size), but keep the "Body Hit reserve", computed as Strength + CF - 10 (again, minimum of zero). • Ditch the Body Hit reserve, too; replace the host's Body Hits with the Celestial's CF + Strength (as modified by the host's Size). When the possession ends, the host reverts to its own Body Hits or the possessor's Body Hits, whichever is less. Personally, I prefer the second option: a Body Hit Reserve benefits the Kyrio more than substituting its "own" Body Hits for the host's, and it's more intuitive. The first option also has some things to recommend it (i.e., you don't need to adjust your Strength for your host's Size; and if you've invested in an above-average Strength, your host always benefits from it, regardless of how strong the host is — and conversely, one who fails to invest enough in Strength always pays for it, no matter how weak the host is); the only downside is that beings who are capable of possession need to track an additional trait on the character sheet (the "host Strength modifier"). I also figure that if the concept of a Body Hits Reserve gets used, it's unique to the Bodiless: a normal celestial using the Song of Possession is stuck with his host's Body Hits only. Last edited by dataweaver; 06-01-2012 at 08:50 PM. |
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06-02-2012, 10:13 AM | #53 | ||||
Join Date: Aug 2010
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Re: GIN Ultra-Lite
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I'd prefer #2 to #1 simply for reduced book keeping. #3 has even less book keeping, but exactly as written is too kind to extreme tanks (who will rarely have fewer than the host's original max hits when the possession ends) and too harsh to squishy Kyriotates (who apparently cause harm that they cannot revoke during their stay to any human who happens to have more natural hits than they do). |
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06-02-2012, 12:14 PM | #54 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
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Re: GIN Ultra-Lite
OK; in the original game, a human has Body Hits of Str×CF, and a Kyrio has Body Hits of Kyrio Str×(Kyrio CF + host CF). Refactoring, this is the same as Kyrio Str×Kyrio CF + Kyrio Str×Host CF. This isn't too different from Kyrio Str×Kyrio CF + Host Str×Host CF, which in turn could be simplified to Kyrio Str×Kyrio CF + Host Body Hits. IOW, while the rationale behind the original rules is a bit different, the effect is roughly analogous to the "Body Hits Reserve" concept. As well, the number of Body Hits that the Kyrio contributes to this total is roughly comparable to the number of Body Hits that the host contributes; so no need to skimp.
So my Official Recommendation™ for the Bodiless is this: they add their (Size-adjusted) Strength and Corporeal Forces to the host's Body Hits. So a Strength 12, 3 CF "starting Kyrio" who possesses a Strength 10, 2 CF human host adds 12+3=15 Body Hits to the host's 10+2=12 Body Hits, for a total of 27 Body Hits. That's roughly equivalent to a starting celestial who has Vessel/3. |
06-10-2012, 07:40 PM | #55 |
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Re: GIN Ultra-Lite
That looks reasonable, yes!
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--Beth Shamelessly adding Superiors: Lilith, GURPS Sparrials, and her fiction page to her .sig (the latter is not precisely gaming related) |
07-09-2013, 08:59 PM | #56 |
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Re: GIN Ultra-Lite
*quick bamf in*
Did anyone ever manage to give this a spin? O:> *saves everything and makes a note to futz with it someday*
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--Beth Shamelessly adding Superiors: Lilith, GURPS Sparrials, and her fiction page to her .sig (the latter is not precisely gaming related) |
07-09-2013, 09:12 PM | #57 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
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Re: GIN Ultra-Lite
I'm going to see about consolidating everything into a single post for ease of access. Sadly, I haven't been able to try this out yet, much as I'd like to — but to be fair, I'm more interested in it in terms of what ideas can be ported into a hypothetical IN2e (such as the decoupling of Forces from Resources, and the Size mechanic for unusually large or small Vessels).
EDIT: That, and the simplified system for skill modifiers and defaults. Last edited by dataweaver; 07-09-2013 at 09:47 PM. |
07-09-2013, 10:07 PM | #58 |
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Re: GIN Ultra-Lite
The Size mechanic is something that I'm very interested in looking at in case I can ever get a Jordi/Animals thing. Because that's pretty much where that's likely to go.
Forces decoupled from Resources is also definitely on the high list of Things That Should Be Thought About. But I also want to know how it runs! O:D
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--Beth Shamelessly adding Superiors: Lilith, GURPS Sparrials, and her fiction page to her .sig (the latter is not precisely gaming related) |
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