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Old 03-21-2012, 03:09 PM   #81
Lamech
 
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Default Re: Ceremonial Magic used to support an army.

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Originally Posted by ErhnamDJ View Post
How long does it take for someone to learn five spells?
A semester. Five CP is a semester it says this in the learning through study section.
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How many years? Let's say they have IQ 11 and Magery 1. They could be spending years getting to the point where they can reliably cast these spells.
If you want to reliably cast them they'll need 16 or IQ+4. That's two years of mage college, or for people with magery 1 slightly less. If they do summer's two they should be able to get a couple more points. That plus the magery bonus should get them any spell mastered in two years if the prereq chain isn't too large.
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Training wizards and everything that entails looks a lot like a nuclear weapons program to me. It's possibly a higher percentage of GDP for your low-tech king to run such a program than it is for a modern state to run a nuclear weapons program.
Its looking more like a program at a technical college. Even bless is more like a college degree. If they are identified at age say... 10, then can run a good four spells by age 18. Even if its a huge prereq chain like enchanting or bless they could still get a couple. In fact they could be a master enchanter and have bless. So really its more like a basic education system to produce a mage.
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Old 03-21-2012, 03:56 PM   #82
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Default Re: Ceremonial Magic used to support an army.

ErhnamDJ, please reread the Youth spell (MAGIC 94). It can be cast only once per month. Succeed or fail, only once per month. The mage will probably use it on himself / herself or the king first and then whatever noble the king wishes to favor. This presumes that the king knows that the mage has the spell.
Unless the authorities dictate the spell list of the mage the authorities can never be sure of what a mage has in his / her grimoire until it is used. The army / government might be able to send some mages through school (if there is such a program) or apprentice them to mages already on the payroll and thus dictate pretty much what a mage learns but otherwise they are out of luck because the mage will study what he / she wants to study. I do not see how any authority could force a mage to learn anything specific unless the mage was on the payroll and agreed to the terms to do so.
I think this means that any army is going to be very limited in terms of magical support and what support they have is going to be guarded very carefully and used only at certain times. Use a mage too often, especially if that mage is good, and the chances that the mage get neutralized by non-magical or even magical means is high. Which means a lot of expense is wasted.
Edit: Typo fix. Even when I proofread before posting, I only catch the errors after posting. GAH!!!
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Old 03-21-2012, 04:18 PM   #83
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Default Re: Ceremonial Magic used to support an army.

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Originally Posted by gruundehn View Post
ErhnamDJ, please reread the Youth spell (MAGIC 94). It can be cast only once per month. Succeed or fail, only once per month.
Most 'one try' spells are per target, and since it's a year per casting, the once a month limit isn't very significant.
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Old 03-21-2012, 07:18 PM   #84
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Default Re: Ceremonial Magic used to support an army.

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Most 'one try' spells are per target, and since it's a year per casting, the once a month limit isn't very significant.
Agreed entirely. Look right below it at Resurrection, which is "One try" only. This clearly means one try per subject, otherwise a single healer would only ever be able to cast it once in a lifetime.
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Old 03-21-2012, 08:54 PM   #85
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Default Re: Ceremonial Magic used to support an army.

Please tell me where the one try per subject is written. I do not see it in the spells, although in Resurrection since it says a flat one try I can see your argument. For Youth I can not see where it would be once per month per subject since that totally breaks mortality. But if there is somewhere that says otherwise please tell me.
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Old 03-21-2012, 09:20 PM   #86
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Default Re: Ceremonial Magic used to support an army.

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For Youth I can not see where it would be once per month per subject since that totally breaks mortality.
Which is why I was suggesting that mages be very, very rare and very, very controlled by the state. If we're to get anything resembling a low-tech environment with them.
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Old 03-22-2012, 06:45 AM   #87
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Default Re: Ceremonial Magic used to support an army.

I don't think so. I think they should be in secret societies to be less world altering. In the power of states I think it would be more world altering.
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Old 03-22-2012, 07:52 AM   #88
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Default Re: Ceremonial Magic used to support an army.

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I don't think so. I think they should be in secret societies to be less world altering. In the power of states I think it would be more world altering.
IMHO...many organizations (Orders or Styles if one must go RAW) with many different goals...mebbie throw them one overarching objective that "all mages" (mostly) are dedicated to...holding back the Old Ones, keeping the Dark Lord from franchising, free ice cream for kids...whatever...

Basically it keeps the mages squabbling amongst themselves, provides a home for a PC mage no matter what philosophy the player comes up with, allows them to act in a united fashion only when the peril is greatest and the plot demands...and curiously enough mimics real life.

To paraphrase John Adams-

"One useless mage is a disgrace, two useless mages are called an enchanting circle, three or more become a College of Mages."

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/1776_(film)
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Old 03-22-2012, 08:13 AM   #89
Fred Brackin
 
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Default Re: Ceremonial Magic used to support an army.

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. For Youth I can not see where it would be once per month per subject since that totally breaks mortality. But if there is somewhere that says otherwise please tell me.
What does "mortality" have to do with the RAW?

What Magic p.94, Youth(VH), Cost line says is "one try per month".

I suppose that could be read as "each Mage may attempt to cast thsi spell only once per month." but I believe this the more probably correct interpretation is "This spell may be attempted only once per month on an individual subject.".

The notations of "One Try" and "One Try (per specified time unit) appear on several other Healing spells (alwasy on the "Cost" line) but it is in Great Healing (which was created for 4e) we find the ultimately Spscific 'One try per day per subject.".

I bleive that it is with the Great Healing wording that the intent is clearest and that if no time unit is specified it is only One Try _ever_ for that subject by any number of Mages.
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Old 03-22-2012, 11:12 AM   #90
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Default Re: Ceremonial Magic used to support an army.

Hmmm... Yes, it should be clearer. One try per subject, per subject per mage, per subject per month, per mage per month, etc.

Edit.: But, looking again, I don't see any spell that restricts a subject to only receive tries from one mage. Even great healing only says that the subject can't benefit from more than one, but says nothing forbiding a second mage to try if the first one fails.

Last edited by BaHalus; 03-22-2012 at 03:05 PM.
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