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Old 12-11-2018, 11:24 AM   #11
ericthered
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Default Re: Need Help Rigorously Stat-ing Myself

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Originally Posted by Tenex View Post
If I'm reading this right, you're saying that a mental skill requires more effort to learn than a physical skill?

No, I'm saying that skills related to adventuring tend to cost more than skills that are not. A sports skill (such as basketball or baseball) makes you quite proficient at many different activities, while armory forces some pretty fine-grained specialization, and camouflage as a skill is not the broadest skill in the book.



But there is a noticeable tendency for physical skills to be more adventuring relevant. This is not a hard rule, but its noticeable. I suspect the real outliers are weapons skills being comparatively expensive, and some IQ skills that cover HUGE swaths of knowledge.
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Old 12-11-2018, 12:29 PM   #12
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Default Re: Need Help Rigorously Stat-ing Myself

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Originally Posted by Tenex View Post
Also, the levels in Tactical Shooting "Guns Skill Levels" sidebar on p. 42 give some out of whack levels when compared to reality. I know numerous cops, fed agents, SWAT guys who are skill 20+ in guns measured by their real world capabilities and converted to GURPS. In fact, I would go so far as to say it's common for many "ordinary" cops to be 15+ in guns.
Is this based on firing range, popup targets, or actual behavior in the field? There are 'extra time' bonuses which can get people with low skill pretty high. It might be that Pyramid's "Aim Expanded" article could solve the problem in place of increasing the underlying skill.
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Old 12-11-2018, 02:45 PM   #13
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Default Re: Need Help Rigorously Stat-ing Myself

To begin with, it's not possible. You cannot possibly completely describe an entire person in a 500-page biography, let alone a character sheet. OK, so you knew that. With that out of the way:

ST: I agree, ST is the easiest to stat, but.... I tried doing my own, but ended up with conflicting numbers for different aspects. I had to compromise even on ST.

IQ:
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Originally Posted by Culture20 View Post
...Also keep in mind the same for IQ: unless you’re an all-around genius in every field even in college, including social graces, then you’re probably a more modest IQ with talents (still smart, but more focused, which is more common)....
Agreed. I never could get my GURPS IQ to work out right without Talents. I'm pretty smart in some areas, and pretty stupid in others (Even then, I had to use Mental Disadvantages to get it more-or-less close).

Quirks: I think most if not all real people who aren't comatose have a lot more than 5. But the 5 limit is because it's hard to get all of those into a game ("Will I get penalized if I don't stop to buy some more dice, printer paper, an owl figurine, some Mexican food, and an ice cream cone because I like those things?")

Advantages: Some GURPS advantages don't fully translate to real-life, so you may have to fudge. For example, I've been told by a piano teacher and a professional drummer that I have perfect timing. In fact, I was tested and can tell if a metronome is a 30th of a second off. But can I "wake up at a predetermined time" if I choose as the admittedly somewhat cinematic Absolute Timing has it? No, I need an alarm clock. But I put Absolute Timing on my "selfie" GURPS sheet.

Disadvantages: Forget about limits. A number of real-life people have more than what's suggested for a PC.
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Old 12-11-2018, 10:07 PM   #14
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Default Re: Need Help Rigorously Stat-ing Myself

Don't forget that 10 is not average for any group. It's simply Gurps default that costs zero points. And basic is about heroic normal, not real normal people of our world.
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Old 12-12-2018, 07:07 AM   #15
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Default Re: Need Help Rigorously Stat-ing Myself

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Originally Posted by Flyndaran View Post

Don't forget that 10 is not average for any group. It's simply Gurps default that costs zero points. And basic is about heroic normal, not real normal people of our world.
I agree with this, especially the "GURPS default that costs zero points" part. That default may be "normal," "heroic," or something else. What it isn't, though, is guaranteed to map to most of the people around you in the real world.

For instance, by virtue of pursuing a hobby that involves reading, research, math, strategy, imagination, and storytelling, gamers tend to be more cerebral than average, and often conclude that they have high IQ as defined in GURPS. Let's set aside that what the game calls "IQ" is fantastically broad and corresponds to little in the real world, and accept that it may be of value when describing how "cerebral" people are. Most individuals will fall within the "human norm," defined on p. B14 as the 8-12 range. All "I have high IQ" is saying for sure is "I'm definitely not an 8-9 like lots of people around me."

To use myself as a guinea pig: I have a real-world IQ-test score of 135-150, depending on which test you trust; I scored in the top 1-5% in all topics on standardized achievement tests; I spent 10+ years in university, earning a graduate degree in theoretical particle physics and a university medal; I've spent the past 24 years writing; and I function in two languages. I'd say I'm IQ 10-11 in GURPS, because I'm not naturally talented at designing buildings, fixing cars, getting elected, investing, leading soldiers, performing surgery, picking locks, playing the violin, quelling riots, sculpting, taming tigers, and all the rest.

This extends to every attribute but ST (which can be measured, and can be quite high for believable human beings). A "high" value of DX, IQ, HT, Will, or Per is most likely an 11; e.g., if you dance and juggle and shoot and drive well, maybe you have DX 11, but I'd be hesitant to accept 12 and outright doubtful of 13+. Leave HP and FP equal to ST and HT, respectively. For Basic Speed and Basic Move, just halve my numbers: Most people are in the 4-6 range, and a 6 is as good as ordinary folks ever get. If your friends think of you as the "quick guy" at video games or whatever, you might have Basic Speed 5.25 or 5.50.

For skills, I'd look at p. B172 and say that most of your skills will be at 8-9, except for the ones you currently keep fresh and use to earn a living, which might rate 12-13. You'll have a couple of hobbies in the 10-11 range, and that's about it. Unless you're a high-paid consultant or professor in your field, you're unlikely to have 14+; unless you're on network TV, in record books, and winning Nobels, Pulitzers, etc., you simply don't have 20+. In most cases, apparent high performance reflects +1 to +4 for assistants, +1 to +4 for equipment, +1 to +5 for extra time, and/or +1 to +4 for a familiar task in an optimal working environment; a skill-13 professional routinely functions at effective skill 14-30, which is why failures aren't common.

For most of the rest, bear in mind that GURPS advantages and disadvantages are dramatic examples of the extreme. The bulk of ordinary folks have the perk or quirk versions of these at best. A trait worth ±2 or ±3 points is really something . . . Absolute Timing, Acute Senses, Extra Sleep, Fearfulness, Lightning Calculator, Longevity, Missing Digit, etc. are things that stand out. Full-on disadvantages are generally crippling; if you're not routinely seeing doctors and therapists, you probably don't have them. Even Fearfulness 2 is a serious anxiety disorder – it means you cave in to fear and doubt about twice as often as others in the Will 9-11 range – and it gives you only -4 points.

The one big exception are traits with a social dimension, such as Languages, Rank, and Wealth. Those are fairly easy to identify and can rack up a lot of points: If you can get by with only minimal errors in spoken and written Japanese and Spanish as well as English, you have two languages at the 4-point level; if you're an active-duty major, you have Military Rank 4 [20]; if the income you reported on your last tax return was 1.9 times the national median, you're probably Comfortable [10].

Be careful with Allies, though . . . unless your lover, family member, friend, coworker, or whatever would help you shoot bad guys and bury the bodies, they're probably a Friend perk at best. Something similar goes for Contacts; generally, unless you could count on someone to use their expert knowledge and influence to help you out when the zombies come or Mr. Big decides to disappear you, they're not all that. Allies, Contacts, and Patrons definitely assume what Flyndaran said about "heroic normal," and refer to resources that would help on out-and-out adventures with explosions, ninjas, and UFOs.
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Old 12-12-2018, 07:22 AM   #16
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Default Re: Need Help Rigorously Stat-ing Myself

I think that it is more useful to designed a character is if it was you at x CP. For example, design yourself as if you were a 250 CP character. Remember, it is not about accuracy, it is about creating a self you would want to play.

In my own case, my 250 CP version would have the attributes of ST 14, DX 12, IQ 14, and HT 12, as well as Will 20. As advanatages, he would have around a dozen allies, ranging from 1 CP to 10 CP, as well as Appearance (Attractive) and Fit. As disadvantages, he would have Absent Minded, Bad Back, Bad Sight, Insomnia, and Overconfidence. He would likely have eighty CP in skills, ranging from Anthropology to Wrestling.
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Old 12-12-2018, 07:52 AM   #17
Kromm
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Default Re: Need Help Rigorously Stat-ing Myself

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Full-on disadvantages are generally crippling; if you're not routinely seeing doctors and therapists, you probably don't have them.
In fact, here's a way to think about that: There are ~8,760 hours in a year. From that, subtract the number of hours you spend in hospitals, clinics, offices of (mental or physical) health-care professionals, etc., and then divide by 365 to get your average day length in hours. From that, subtract the extra hours you need to get ready for each day owing to your problems – or that your problems cost you each day (e.g., if you blow an extra hour a day getting to and from work not because you choose not to drive but because you aren't permitted to drive, subtract an hour). For each hour less than 24 this leaves you, claim -2 points, as for Extra Sleep.

For instance, I see a medical doctor, psychotherapist, and chiropractor for my issues, and visit clinics and hospitals for tests. My total commitment to those things is about 30 hours/year, so my average day starts at 23.9 hours. Some time blown on exercises and medication might make that 23 hours. I'd have at most a -1-point quirk, and might convince my GM to let me have two quirks, one for the mental problems and one for the physical problems.

This is specifically for "all the little problems." Obviously, if you have serious quality-of-life issues above and beyond missing time, you'd use the standard disadvantage pricing.
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Old 12-12-2018, 10:47 AM   #18
Alden Loveshade
 
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Default Re: Need Help Rigorously Stat-ing Myself

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Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
To use myself as a guinea pig: I have a real-world IQ-test score of 135-150, depending on which test you trust; I scored in the top 1-5% in all topics on standardized achievement tests; I spent 10+ years in university, earning a graduate degree in theoretical particle physics and a university medal; I've spent the past 24 years writing; and I function in two languages. I'd say I'm IQ 10-11 in GURPS, because I'm not naturally talented at designing buildings, fixing cars, getting elected, investing, leading soldiers, performing surgery, picking locks, playing the violin, quelling riots, sculpting, taming tigers, and all the rest.
Perhaps the biggest problems with standardized IQ tests is that they measure one or two aspects of intelligence and not others. A friend of mine has tested at 99 (average), but has written a number of produced plays. The highly successful artist Andy Warhol was said to have an IQ of 86 (although this is disputed). Someone else I know tested at 90, but figured out how to do beginning computer programming without any teacher or written instruction and created original concepts in time paradoxes. Someone else I know tested at about 130 and worked for the federal government, but had very little concept of how to clean anything or how to buy groceries.
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Old 12-12-2018, 10:58 AM   #19
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Default Re: Need Help Rigorously Stat-ing Myself

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Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
In most cases, apparent high performance reflects +1 to +4 for assistants, +1 to +4 for equipment, +1 to +5 for extra time, and/or +1 to +4 for a familiar task in an optimal working environment; a skill-13 professional routinely functions at effective skill 14-30, which is why failures aren't common.
Thank you for that; you may have just solved a long-standing "discussion" I've had with how to apply GURPS skills to real life. I've had jobs I've worked at for years, and only rarely faced a situation where I really felt tested because most of the time it was routine. Even working as a journalist (writing and secondarily photography) covering, among other things, crimes and fires, there were only two or three times where I felt I was really "tested." (The time where instead of staying at the edge of a forest fire in an area where it had already burned like I was trained to do, I almost ended up in the middle of it because otherwise I couldn't get the right camera shot, might qualify.)
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Old 12-12-2018, 12:16 PM   #20
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Default Re: Need Help Rigorously Stat-ing Myself

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Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
I have a real-world IQ-test score of 135-150, depending on which test you trust; I scored in the top 1-5% in all topics on standardized achievement tests; I spent 10+ years in university, earning a graduate degree in theoretical particle physics and a university medal; I've spent the past 24 years writing; and I function in two languages. I'd say I'm IQ 10-11 in GURPS, because I'm not naturally talented at designing buildings, fixing cars, getting elected, investing, leading soldiers, performing surgery, picking locks, playing the violin, quelling riots, sculpting, taming tigers, and all the rest.
For someone to have an IQ of 10-11 but function as if they were 14-15 when assessed in an IQ test, would that mean they have a +4 Talent that applies to all skills which are used in taking IQ tests? I'm not sure what those skills are and how much such a Talent would cost.
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