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Old 12-11-2018, 08:53 AM   #1
phayman53
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Default Need help building a realistic town in 10th Century Germany

I am trying to build a historical fantasy campaign set at the beginning of the 10th century in Saxony. It will be a mix of monster hunting, defending against bandits and raiders, and some political intrigue. However, I have at least one historically minded player, so I am going to make the fantasy fit within the context of historical 10th century northern Germany (with the monsters that many people believed were real being real). As a backdrop I was hoping to set the campaign in Hamburg, which was founded as a missionary base in the 9th century, but its location on the Elbe River also made it an excellent trading center. It became an Archdiocese in 831, but was later united with the Archdiocese of Bremen after Hamburg was sacked by Vikings in 845. The reason I want to use it is that it is definitely on the frontier of the East Frankish Kingdom, which is on its last legs, so their is plenty of wilderness for monsters and witches to hide in. Hamburg is also at an intersection of contact between East Francia and both the Danes and West Slavic tribes, and also within the raiding range of the Magyars. All of this makes for excellent variety in factions and opponents.

My issue is that I am unsure how a Archdiocese like Hamburg would have been structured and run. In fact, I am having a hard time finding much information on the town in this period. The Archdiocese of Hamburg was united with Bremen about 60 years before the campaign starts, and the Archbishop usually ruled from Bremen as Hamburg seems to have been too much on the frontier and was looted by Viking and Slavic raiders at least twice (845 and 880). When the town was raided in 845 it only had about 500 residents, so it was not exactly a teeming metropolis. I am unsure of how big it was in the early 900s and would love to find some information on that.

That said, I don't need to be 100% accurate to Hamburg in the 10th Century, especially as those details may not exist. However, I want the town to be plausible for an Archdiocese at that time and in that area.

Given that there are some people with excellent historical knowledge on this forum, I thought I would ask and see if anyone could fill in some gaps for me. My main questions are: would the town have been directly administered by the church? Would there have been a count or other noble(s) in charge (I can't find any record of that for this period)? Or would there have been a town counsel/mayor that handled the civil affairs? If the latter, would they have answered directly to the Duke of Saxony (Hamburg did not have status as a free city yet during this period), the church, or some other noble? Does anyone know how large the town was in the 10th century? And how it may have been fortified and garrisoned? Finally, any other 'color' type details for a plausible social, political, and economic structure would be highly appreciated.

Also, any historical sources in English for Hamburg and Saxony during the 10th century would be great (especially if they are free!).
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Old 12-11-2018, 11:40 AM   #2
DouglasCole
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Default Re: Need help building a realistic town in 10th Century Germany

Are you familiar with S. John Ross' "Medieval Demographics Made Easy?"

You might find something of use here; it's not a "This is Hamburg!" source, but it will give you ranges for who's doing what, and how many?

There's also the Domesday Book, which hosts a web app based on the article above.
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Old 12-11-2018, 11:42 AM   #3
DouglasCole
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Default Re: Need help building a realistic town in 10th Century Germany

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Originally Posted by DouglasCole View Post
Are you familiar with S. John Ross' "Medieval Demographics Made Easy?"

You might find something of use here; it's not a "This is Hamburg!" source, but it will give you ranges for who's doing what, and how many?

There's also the Domesday Book, which hosts a web app based on the article above.
Donjon hosts a different version as well.
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Old 12-12-2018, 09:31 AM   #4
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Default Re: Need help building a realistic town in 10th Century Germany

Quote:
Originally Posted by DouglasCole View Post
Are you familiar with S. John Ross' "Medieval Demographics Made Easy?"

You might find something of use here; it's not a "This is Hamburg!" source, but it will give you ranges for who's doing what, and how many?

There's also the Domesday Book, which hosts a web app based on the article above.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DouglasCole View Post
Thank you very much, this is an excellent source and some really cool tools! Any idea what level of population density should be used for 10th century Saxony? My understanding is that population density was pretty low during this period even though the land was definitely able to support more.
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Old 12-12-2018, 01:39 PM   #5
DouglasCole
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Default Re: Need help building a realistic town in 10th Century Germany

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Originally Posted by phayman53 View Post
Thank you very much, this is an excellent source and some really cool tools! Any idea what level of population density should be used for 10th century Saxony? My understanding is that population density was pretty low during this period even though the land was definitely able to support more.
http://www.paolomalanima.it/default_...VAL_GROWTH.pdf

There is, much to my surprise, a population density chart by region of Europe in this article.
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Old 12-12-2018, 02:17 PM   #6
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Default Re: Need help building a realistic town in 10th Century Germany

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Originally Posted by DouglasCole View Post
http://www.paolomalanima.it/default_...VAL_GROWTH.pdf

There is, much to my surprise, a population density chart by region of Europe in this article.
That article really surprised me. I had no idea the population density of Italy was so much higher than everywhere else. And Spain was so much lower than France/England/Germany/Italy. Spain had a lower population density than Scotland! Was that a result of the reconquesta? Also, I knew Scandanavia and Russia had a low population density but I was surprised at just how low it was.

Interesting article.
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Old 12-12-2018, 02:36 PM   #7
DouglasCole
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Default Re: Need help building a realistic town in 10th Century Germany

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Originally Posted by a humble lich View Post
That article really surprised me. I had no idea the population density of Italy was so much higher than everywhere else. And Spain was so much lower than France/England/Germany/Italy. Spain had a lower population density than Scotland! Was that a result of the reconquesta? Also, I knew Scandanavia and Russia had a low population density but I was surprised at just how low it was.

Interesting article.
I am not super well versed in these things, but from my investigations into physical archaeology and construction techniques for making viking shields, and my worldbuilding exercises for Nordlond/Torengar for my Norse-ish adventures and books, the biggest thing I keep rediscovering is how little I really know about the world 700-1200 years ago.
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Old 12-12-2018, 02:41 PM   #8
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Default Re: Need help building a realistic town in 10th Century Germany

Fascinating article. Thanks Douglas.
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Old 12-12-2018, 03:59 PM   #9
phayman53
 
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Default Re: Need help building a realistic town in 10th Century Germany

Quote:
Originally Posted by DouglasCole View Post
http://www.paolomalanima.it/default_...VAL_GROWTH.pdf

There is, much to my surprise, a population density chart by region of Europe in this article.
Wow, this is great! Thank you so much for your help, I was searching for something like this but just couldn't find it.
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Old 12-12-2018, 04:21 PM   #10
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Default Re: Need help building a realistic town in 10th Century Germany

Quote:
Originally Posted by DouglasCole View Post
http://www.paolomalanima.it/default_...VAL_GROWTH.pdf

There is, much to my surprise, a population density chart by region of Europe in this article.
Using that article you sent, the population density in the German region in AD 1000 was only 21.4/sq mi. That is below the "minimum" in "Medieval Demographics Made Easy" and at the "Desolate" level on the donjon auto tool. No wonder the Dutchy of Saxony only has about 13 towns listed on it for the maps I can find for the 11th Century. I imagine some of those may even have a population of less than 1000 at that time too.
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