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Old 08-05-2020, 09:18 AM   #171
naloth
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Default Re: [Supers] Nerfed Marvel Universe

Quote:
Originally Posted by awesomenessofme1 View Post
Invisible Woman

Binding 50 (Long-Range 1, +50%; Unbreakable, +40%; Inaccurate 3, -15%; One-Shot, -10%; Super, -10%; Alternative Ability to DR, x1/5) [31]
I'd add "Requires concentration" so that she can only have one field up at a time (at this point in her career). Otherwise you need a duration of some kind.

Quote:
DR20 (Affects Others, +50%; Area Effect (4 yd), +100%; Force Field, +20%; Hardened 4, +80%; Super, -10%) [350]
She'll need ranged if she can protect teammates she isn't adjacent to. Selective Area would also be good so she doesn't have to use max size and a round shape all the time.

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Invisibility (Affects Machines, +50%; Switchable, +10%; Super, -10%) [60]
Is this version going to have the ability to affect others and her encumbrance?

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Telekinesis 20 (Increased Range x10, +30%; Cannot Affect Self, -20%; Cannot Punch, -10%; Visible, -20%; Super, -10%, Alternative Ability to DR, x1/5) [14]
I'd drop cannot affect self, since she can normally travel or walk on her invisible fields.

As a cost note, it's generally more cost effective to get a high physician skill and default other skills from it rather than use Healer and buy each skill.
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Old 08-05-2020, 09:33 AM   #172
AlexanderHowl
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Default Re: [Supers] Nerfed Marvel Universe

Binding does not require duration, victims stay trapped until they escape or break free. When you add Area Effect and Persistent, the duration applies only for trapping new victims, but existing victims are still trapped.
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Old 08-05-2020, 09:38 AM   #173
naloth
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Default Re: [Supers] Nerfed Marvel Universe

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Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
Binding does not require duration, victims stay trapped until they escape or break free. When you add Area Effect and Persistent, the duration applies only for trapping new victims, but existing victims are still trapped.
Yes, I meant as a limitation rather than an enhancement. Susan's fields tend to be very temporary rather than permanent encasement.
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Old 08-05-2020, 09:52 AM   #174
AlexanderHowl
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Default Re: [Supers] Nerfed Marvel Universe

I believe that would qualify as TK instead of Binding then. TK 50 (Increased Range, 10x, +30%; Super, -10%) [300] would be required (it would be only 60 CP as an AA for DR, which only increases the cost of her powers by 15 CP).

An alternative version of her DR would be Crushing Attack 10d (Area Effect, 16 yards, +200%; Double Knockback, +20%; No Blunt Trauma, -20%; No Wounding, -50%; Persistent, +40%; Selective Area, +20%; Selectivity, +10%; Super, -10%; Wall, Rigid, +60%) [185]. It would give the same DR and allow some more flexibility, as she could create multiple walls.
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Old 08-05-2020, 10:19 AM   #175
naloth
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Default Re: [Supers] Nerfed Marvel Universe

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Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
I believe that would qualify as TK instead of Binding then. TK 50 (Increased Range, 10x, +30%; Super, -10%) [300] would be required (it would be only 60 CP as an AA for DR, which only increases the cost of her powers by 15 CP).

An alternative version of her DR would be Crushing Attack 10d (Area Effect, 16 yards, +200%; Double Knockback, +20%; No Blunt Trauma, -20%; No Wounding, -50%; Persistent, +40%; Selective Area, +20%; Selectivity, +10%; Super, -10%; Wall, Rigid, +60%) [185]. It would give the same DR and allow some more flexibility, as she could create multiple walls.
No Punch would bring the cost down to the first ability. I'm not even sure she can move stuff fast enough to effectively "throw" stuff.

Her abilities typically require concentration rather than having an "up for 10 seconds" duration. I prefer the solution you've put for cost reasons, but DR has a better feel with fewer modifiers. DR will also work after being pierced where a wall can be destroyed in a hit or two letting all remaining attacks through. Either approach works, there's just pros and cons depending on what effects you want.

Last edited by naloth; 08-05-2020 at 10:29 AM.
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Old 08-05-2020, 05:41 PM   #176
awesomenessofme1
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Default Re: [Supers] Nerfed Marvel Universe

Quote:
Originally Posted by naloth View Post
I'd add "Requires concentration" so that she can only have one field up at a time (at this point in her career). Otherwise you need a duration of some kind.
Good call. It'd be a bit weird for her to be able to bind people and have them stay trapped without concentration when her powers are built as AAs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by naloth View Post
She'll need ranged if she can protect teammates she isn't adjacent to. Selective Area would also be good so she doesn't have to use max size and a round shape all the time.
Yeah, it probably would make sense for her to be able to project it at a range since her other force-field powers are ranged. I was under the impression that you can automatically resize non-attack powers, but Selective Area might still be worth it for reshaping, even if I'm right on that.

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Originally Posted by naloth View Post
Is this version going to have the ability to affect others and her encumbrance?
Well, not at the moment.

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Originally Posted by naloth View Post
I'd drop cannot affect self, since she can normally travel or walk on her invisible fields.
The issue is that if I let her use TK on herself, she'll be able to move much faster than normal, which isn't really what I'm imagining. I might instead give her Walk On Air as another AA.

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Originally Posted by naloth View Post
As a cost note, it's generally more cost effective to get a high physician skill and default other skills from it rather than use Healer and buy each skill.
Only if you don't mind the character having an inflated Physician skill. Which I do.
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Old 08-05-2020, 07:09 PM   #177
Varyon
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Default Re: [Supers] Nerfed Marvel Universe

For Invisible Woman, part of me feels that, rather than Binding, you should simply give her stronger TK, but with some added Limitations on some of it. +30 to TK would give the same functionality as your Binding (once you add Requires Concentrate to the latter, anyway), and more, for a lower cost [+21] rather than [+31]. To this you can add Lift Only -20% and another Limitation so it can't allow her to actually use grappling moves with it (it can only hold the target still), which I'd call Cannot Manipulate and eyeball at -10% (it's roughly comparable to Cannot Punch). So, this is:

TK 20 (Increased Range x10, +30%; Cannot Affect Self, -20%; Cannot Punch, -10%; Visible, -20%; Super, -10%) [70]
+
TK 30 (Increased Range x10, +30%; Cannot Affect Self, -20%; Cannot Manipulate -10%; Cannot Punch, -10%; Lift Only -20%; Visible, -20%; Super, -10%) [60]

For a total of [130], and [26] as an Alternative Ability, saving quite a few points (the whole build costs less than the Binding alone) and making it clear her ability to bind targets is really just a pumped-up version of her functional telekinesis (although if they're actually separate powers in the original source - I'm not terribly familiar with the Fantastic Four - I suppose that's not as appropriate). That technically allows her to move bound targets around, at up to Move 20 (depending on weight); if you would rather avoid that, I'd give a refund equal to 80% of what you'd get applying Lift Only -20% on the initial TK 20 (this is essentially applying said Limitation as a Temporary Disadvantage), or [16].

I'll also note that, if you're comfortable with her being able to lift herself with her Telekinesis but not being able to fly at Move 16 or so as a result, then as long as you don't want her able to pick up someone of her weight and move them around at that same Move 16, you can always toss Lift Only -20% on most of the initial TK 20, and get rid of Cannot Affect Self. This will increase cost some, but makes it so you don't have to explain why she can fling her husband around at ~24 mph, but if he happens to grab onto her she suddenly can't move him at all (as doing so would cause her to move as well, and that's forbidden by Cannot Affect Self), or why she can lift platforms for others to cross, but if she steps on one (Concentrate allows a Step) it plummets.

For example, if you put Lift Only on TK 15 (of the initial 20), that means things she's manipulating with TK can only be moved at up to 5 yards per second. As she would be Light Encumbrance for her TK 5+15, that means she can move herself (or someone else of roughly her weight) around at 4 yards per second; Mr Fantastic, on the other hand, is Medium Encumbrance, and thus moves at 3 yards per second.

Combining these, you could have something like the following.

TK 5 (Increased Range x10, +30%; Cannot Punch, -10%; Visible, -20%; Super, -10%) [22.5]
+TK 15 (As Above -10%; Lift Only -20%) [52.5]
+TK 30 (As Above -30%; Cannot Manipulate -10%) [90]

For a total of [165], or [33] as an Alternate Ability. If you want no movement to be allowed when the additional TK 30 is in play, you can simply make a note of this, as the Temporary Disadvantage scheme won't reduce cost enough to make a difference as an Alternate Ability (it saves [4], meaning the AA would still round up to [33]).

Note while the above sounds a bit complicated, it works out to be pretty simple - Invisible Woman can use Telekinesis (or at least forcefields that function like it) that has ST 20 and Move 5 up to 100 yards away, and she can boost it to ST 50 by opting to limit it to only holding the target.
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Old 08-05-2020, 07:48 PM   #178
awesomenessofme1
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Default Re: [Supers] Nerfed Marvel Universe

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Originally Posted by Varyon View Post
[snip]

Combining these, you could have something like the following.

TK 5 (Increased Range x10, +30%; Cannot Punch, -10%; Visible, -20%; Super, -10%) [22.5]
+TK 15 (As Above -10%; Lift Only -20%) [52.5]
+TK 30 (As Above -30%; Cannot Manipulate -10%) [90]

For a total of [165], or [33] as an Alternate Ability. If you want no movement to be allowed when the additional TK 30 is in play, you can simply make a note of this, as the Temporary Disadvantage scheme won't reduce cost enough to make a difference as an Alternate Ability (it saves [4], meaning the AA would still round up to [33]).

Note while the above sounds a bit complicated, it works out to be pretty simple - Invisible Woman can use Telekinesis (or at least forcefields that function like it) that has ST 20 and Move 5 up to 100 yards away, and she can boost it to ST 50 by opting to limit it to only holding the target.
I'm strongly considering using a build like this, but I had one opinion to ask. Martial Arts: Technical Grappling gives a limitation value of -45% to "Restraint Only". Do you find this to be a fair value for the limitation in a game where Technical Grappling wouldn't be used? It's basically Cannot Punch+Lift Only+an additional -15%.
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Old 08-05-2020, 08:07 PM   #179
Varyon
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Default Re: [Supers] Nerfed Marvel Universe

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Originally Posted by awesomenessofme1 View Post
I'm strongly considering using a build like this, but I had one opinion to ask. Martial Arts: Technical Grappling gives a limitation value of -45% to "Restraint Only". Do you find this to be a fair value for the limitation in a game where Technical Grappling wouldn't be used? It's basically Cannot Punch+Lift Only+an additional -15%.
Honestly, you'd probably be fine using that in a setting without Technical Grappling rules - I don't think TG makes grappling more useful, it just makes it more nuanced and interesting, so in general prices from there should work fine when its rules aren't in play.
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Old 08-08-2020, 11:59 AM   #180
awesomenessofme1
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Default Re: [Supers] Nerfed Marvel Universe

Just thought I'd post a quick update saying that this thread isn't dead, but it is on a short hiatus while I build up another backlog of character builds. Doctor Doom will almost certainly be the next posted, but that might be up in the air.
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