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 01-16-2023, 03:15 PM #1 Vulcan Stev     Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Southern Missouri Physics Question Assuming a weight of 140 metric tons. How much force is required to topple a Star Wars AT-AT? Believe it or not, I DO need to know for Car Wars __________________ Vulcan Stev aka Steve Nibbelink D.R.I.V.E.
 01-16-2023, 03:23 PM #2 Brf     Join Date: Apr 2011 Re: Physics Question If this is a true physics question, it would depend on the width of the base and how high above the ground your force is. Also, whether you are pushing or pulling. If you are pulling at a point above the center of gravity, it might not take too much force at all.
 01-16-2023, 03:30 PM #3 Anthony   Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Berkeley, CA Re: Physics Question Depends where you apply the force and how stable the AT-AT actually is, which is not established anywhere. If you assume zero ability to stabilize beyond it being moderately broad from side to side, 5-10% of its weight applied near the top would likely do the job. __________________ My GURPS site and Blog.
 01-17-2023, 09:53 AM #4 HeatDeath   Join Date: May 2012 Re: Physics Question If you're applying the force at the bottom of one leg (e.g. if a car hits it), and it has even rudimentary stabilizing capability, even confetti-ing that one leg might not be enough. Tripods are still stable.
 01-17-2023, 01:04 PM #5 Magesmiley   Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Snohomish, WA Re: Physics Question For 6th edition I think you'd be stuck with treating it as a wall unless you've got something at least half its weight, at which point it'd get pushed, but not tipped over. For Classic Car Wars 140 metric tons is 308647.167 pounds. I would think that to tip it in a collision, you'd need to hit it with enough weight to cause it to conform. This essentially means that you need to have a temporary speed of higher than 0 after the collision. To figure the temporary speed you need the damage modifier of the vehicles. The Damage Modifier table formula (after hitting 4000 lbs.) is essentially (weight / 4000) -1, rounding up. This gives a DM of 78. Clearly the temporary speed table only goes up to 20. And the chart's progression beyond 20 is anything but clear. The chart is pretty wonky in places, but it looks like that above somewhere around 7.5 times your DM you go to zero (and would be stopped and couldn't cause any conforming). So I'd say probably at around DM 11 would be the minimum (with 10 not working). Above 44,000 lbs. or roughly 20 metric tons. Anything less than that hits and stops. Anything above that can push it. At least under Car Wars rules. __________________ Dynamax Designs, Designing quality since 2035. Watch your handling and remember to Drive Offensively!
 01-17-2023, 01:19 PM #6 Vulcan Stev     Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Southern Missouri Re: Physics Question Thank you all! __________________ Vulcan Stev aka Steve Nibbelink D.R.I.V.E.
 01-17-2023, 01:20 PM #7 Magesmiley   Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Snohomish, WA Re: Physics Question One caveat I almost forgot... if the confetti rule is in effect, DM 78 is going to be pretty horrific. Even if you survive each point of damage rolled being multiplied by 78 (hope you bought a roll cage), it means that every point rolled is enough to confetti 3900 lbs. of vehicle. __________________ Dynamax Designs, Designing quality since 2035. Watch your handling and remember to Drive Offensively!
01-19-2023, 11:12 AM   #8
Aleph

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: The Central Network
Re: Physics Question

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Magesmiley For 6th edition I think you'd be stuck with treating it as a wall unless you've got something at least half its weight, at which point it'd get pushed, but not tipped over.
Clarifying, since elsewhere the OP has said they aren't familiar with the 6E rules, that this would be a house rule still. The only concept of 'weight' in the current 6E rules is whether an obstacle is Light (can be pushed, is destroyed if pushed into contact with another obstacle), Heavy (can be pushed, has collisions if pushed into another obstacle), or Wall (cannot be pushed). All player vehicles are considered Heavy obstacles.

01-20-2023, 09:53 AM   #9
Magesmiley

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Snohomish, WA
Re: Physics Question

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Aleph Clarifying, since elsewhere the OP has said they aren't familiar with the 6E rules, that this would be a house rule still. The only concept of 'weight' in the current 6E rules is whether an obstacle is Light (can be pushed, is destroyed if pushed into contact with another obstacle), Heavy (can be pushed, has collisions if pushed into another obstacle), or Wall (cannot be pushed). All player vehicles are considered Heavy obstacles.
Yep. I assumed he was looking for some sort of house rule, as neither 6E nor Classic has anything remotely covering Imperial Walkers. My comments are entirely how I'd play it.

6E has a very limited set of classifications. A walker clearly isn't light as the thought of it popping just seems wrong. There isn't currently any sort of classification between heavy and wall, so I'd play it as one of the two. The typical Car Wars vehicle wouldn't be able to knock one down in 6E, so it'd be a wall if a car runs into one.

I'll also add that 6E doesn't cover what happens if something classified as a wall runs into a heavy object. ;) Walls don't generally move. Oversized vehicles aren't covered by the 6E rules (at least currently), so exact behavior isn't defined. FWIW, I'd play it like a heavy object hitting a light one.

Again house rules entirely. Imperial Walkers aren't cars and aren't covered by the rules for Car Wars (and I suspect that they won't ever be, thankfully).
__________________
Dynamax Designs, Designing quality since 2035.

Watch your handling and remember to Drive Offensively!

 01-20-2023, 02:31 PM #10 HeatDeath   Join Date: May 2012 Re: Physics Question I can neither confirm nor deny that my wife caught me walking around on all fours in my living room today paying careful attention to my hands to try to figure out how steering a four-legged walker might work and what constraints that would place on the movement of the four independent feet.

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