Why doesn't Brawling have a Default?

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Kromm

My point in context being that if you have the proposed skill 10-11 warriors clubbing the skull at -7, their skill is 3-4, which is <5.

Yeah, but under GURPS mechanics you'd never do that, skull hits aren't effective enough to be worth taking that penalty.

[Nereidalbel]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Yeah, but under GURPS mechanics you'd never do that, skull hits aren't effective enough to be worth taking that penalty.

4x wounding and forcing a roll at HT-10 to not be stunned and knocked down isn't effective enough?

[Nyarli]

Originally Posted by Dalillama

Well, the damage caused by hitting people with
So, if your goal is to hurt/kill someone as much as possible in the shortest time, you probably are better off pistol-whipping them.

First of all small truncheon is also classified as blackjack in GURPS.
But blackjacks are only melee weapon that can be used at full DX without any skill. There should be some purpose-built melee weapons which would be at least as handy and damaging in amauter's hands as handguns, but no. You can strike with your trusty Colt Walker for significant damage without sacrificing skiil, but take a short club and either it's a fistload and therefore only +1 to your unarmed damage, or prepere to take -5 to your attack roll. Something is wrong here.

Quick edit: blackjacks are not only melee weapon that can be used at DX but others still do no more than thr cr, and only fistloads that exceed thr cr in damage are pistols.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Nereidalbel

4x wounding and forcing a roll at HT-10 to not be stunned and knocked down isn't effective enough?

Not to take a -7 when your effective skill is less than about 18, no.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Nereidalbel

4x wounding and forcing a roll at HT-10 to not be stunned and knocked down isn't effective enough?

Not remotely worth, for instance, only throwing one telegraphic attack at unmodified skill every 4 turns.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

Not remotely worth, for instance, only throwing one telegraphic attack at unmodified skill every 4 turns.

Well, you'd probably throw one at -3 every turn. At skill 10, attacking every turn at -3 gives 0.162 successes/turn, attacking every other turn at -2 gives 0.130 successes/turn, attacking every third turn at -1 gives 0.125 successes/turn, attacking every fourth turn at +0 gives 0.125 successes/turn. However, making telegraphic torso hits gives 0.838 hits per turn, and five torso hits beat one skull hit.

[Dalillama]

Originally Posted by Nyarli

First of all small truncheon is also classified as blackjack in GURPS.

And small wooden truncheons typically weigh less than metal pistols, and are usually less hard, as well.

There should be some purpose-built melee weapons which would be at least as handy and damaging in amauter's hands as handguns, but no.

What weapon would that be? I am not aware of any such weapon existing in the real world.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Dalillama

What weapon would that be? I am not aware of any such weapon existing in the real world.

I believe he's comparing using a melee weapon to pistol-whipping someone, not shooting them.

[Nyarli]

Originally Posted by Dalillama

What weapon would that be? I am not aware of any such weapon existing in the real world.

Either you don't understand that I talk about handguns as melee weapons, or you consider that large pistol (bulk -3) is somehow better club/fistload (small striking weapon if you wish) than wepons purposefully built for melee only, because in arms of Joe Average (ST 10-11) it inflicts as much damage as baton, but unlike baton allows you to use your DX.

[Dalillama]

Originally Posted by Nyarli

Either you don't understand that I talk about handguns as melee weapons, or you consider that large pistol (bulk -3) is somehow better club/fistload (small striking weapon if you wish) than wepons purposefully built for melee only, because in arms of Joe Average (ST 10-11) it inflicts as much damage as baton, but unlike baton allows you to use your DX.

A modern .44 Magnum revolver (one of the listed large pistols) weighs around 3 lb. The Colt Walker you mentioned earlier is up at 4.5#. A 21" wooden baton weighs a little bit under 1 lb. You get more striking force from leverage, which is why it does as much damage as hitting someone with a Walker Colt in the hands of someone who isn't very strong, and even more in the hands of someone with the muscle to really take advantage of it (even a moderately brawny ST 12 brings the baton damage above the pistol-whipping again). For that matter, a .44 has a min ST rating of 11-12 already (depending on the pistol), so Joe ST 10 hasn't got any business packing one anyhow.