How to give fatigue points more meaning?

[Tomsdad]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

Even when I'm nearly falling over from lack of sleep or fatigue, I can still carry nearly my normal weight. Nowhere near 50% loss of strength. So I wouldn't say avoiding such a recalculation is just for ease of play.

I have to say one of the reasons why I like Last gasp is that it's a gradual impairment, rather than fine, fine fine, bam half Mv & ST etc (even if the effects in LG are more wide ranging).

I think the point I'd make is while you might still be capable of maintaining physical performance while tired, it is more tiring to do so than when you are fresh. I.e. you get a positive feed back loop of fatigue going the more you try and keep operating at normal capacity while fatigued.

In LG this is generally shown by penalising HT. HT is used to resist some effects of Fatigue in the long term, and to recover AP short term. But because it's also used to make lifting rolls that might be needed more and more to maintain a carrying a load as BL decreases. (However the way lifting works and FP is used for lifting it's a bit all or nothing here).

Even though LG is more detail it's still a gamable abstraction designed to be above all playable! GURPS + LG is not supposed to be detailed and precise RL simulator for fatigue while carrying loads.

[Boge]

We're starting a campaign tomorrow and we're going to give Last Gasp a try.

Is the 1/3 threshold still meant to apply, or does Last Gasp completely overwrite that ruling? If it does still apply, how do you calculate the penalties?

[Canology]

As far as I can tell The Last Gasp replaces the 1/3 threshold rule.

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by Gollum

I read it just as an example of adventure: a military mission. And for a military mission, 6 hours a night is a high average.

I lived worse during my military service, and it was just training.

Funny. In my experience while there were times of little or even no sleep, most of the time when yomping through the bush we got about 8 hours sleep. There's no point trying to move through the bush at night, so you set up your harbour and rest. Even with sentry duty in unless you're at very high latitudes there'll be time for sleep. Of course if the enemy interrupts you, you lose sleep, but for most of your time in the bush they won't be.

That doesn't make it a vacation, though. You're still carrying heavy, heavy packs through bush over rough ground for 8 hours a day, and clearing harbours and digging crapes for the rest of the day. If you're lucky, your day involves only light work like a patrol or (if on exercise) battle drills which are tiring in the short term, but much easier overall than marching cross-country all day.

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

Again, yes, it's entirely feasible for (many, if not all) real people to run on six hours or perhaps even less for extended periods.

GURPS characters outright can't do it unless they've got Advantages that completely obviate the ill effects.

Many people might have the advantage. Or, more likely, it's not as punishing in the short term as GURPS says it is. OTOH, running short a couple of hours of sleep a night over the course of years (and extra sleep in the weekend does not counter this) is not good for you. It does bad things to your immune system, and most other systems in the body as well.

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by johndallman

I'm finding I need to buy it for a junior engineering officer in a space navy game. In a day, you're on watch for eight hours, need four hours for meals, hygiene and minimal socialising, and a few hours for study. When you're also trying to invent a new piece of equipment, even one hour's less sleep a day becomes valuable.

One thing I remember from Winton's We Joined the Navy, etc. novels was that even officer cadets got to sleep in on the morning after they had a night watch. This is in contrast to what some veterans of the USN have said - they've mentioned being made to do a normal day's duties despite having stood watch the night before. I suspect different services and different countries may approach this sort of thing differently.

Another example - after WWI the RN and USN got to have a very good look at each others ships, and the RN remarked on how the USN's ships had very good facilities for the men - large messes that could double as spaces for group activities and recreation, and so on. They also noted that the USN's ships had inadequate sleeping arrangements by the RN's standards. The RN's sailors lived a more spartan life aboard, but more care was taken to ensure that they got good sleep.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by Rupert

Many people might have the advantage. Or, more likely, it's not as punishing in the short term as GURPS says it is. OTOH, running short a couple of hours of sleep a night over the course of years (and extra sleep in the weekend does not counter this) is not good for you. It does bad things to your immune system, and most other systems in the body as well.

My immune system is fine*. It's my brain power†, physical recovery time, and motivational systems‡ that are shot.



* Going on two years of not enough sleep.

† It's definitely "lowered the activation roll" on all my mental disadvantages, and made me stupider, and it takes longer to 'bounce' back from injuries and sickness and wearing myself out.

‡ If it isn't just sitting on my butt... I almost have no motivation to do the things I like doing. Just too tired for all that movement and dealing with people.