06-19-2019, 03:01 AM | #21 | |
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: London Uk, but originally from Scotland
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Re: The (Unintentional?) MMO End Game of TFT
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06-19-2019, 03:28 AM | #22 |
Join Date: May 2019
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Re: The (Unintentional?) MMO End Game of TFT
You've actually got it backwards. MMOs are characterized by weak early game that reward you with a strong end game. You have detailed reasons why TFT has a weak late game. This is because TFT is about making a character and taking them on a journey that ends in either their death or retirement. It's not about figuring out how to make them ascend to the stars as cosmically powerful aliens
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06-19-2019, 04:11 AM | #23 | |||||||||
Join Date: Nov 2017
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Re: The (Unintentional?) MMO End Game of TFT
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One of the arguments against what I was pointing out is the idea that as characters develop they start to gain greater social power and responsibility (becoming lords and dukes and kings) and that sort of social cache is exactly what would lead to them being able to pull this stuff off. Whether its because they trade favours/money/perform quests to get the wizards on side or simply enslave them with military might, it can be done. Will some GM’s nix it and deny players the ability to do it? Sure, of course. But the truth that it is RAW is right there. Heck, in the magic item creation section there is an example of a magic item with three enchantments being created. Quote:
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The very fact that these organizations would do that implies that THEIR leaders will end up looking like the characters I described. So again, these type of characters will exist in world and you’ll have the issue of answering the question, ‘Why can an NPC do it, but I can’t?’ I mean, alternatively you could just say ‘rocks fall’ and you die, but that’s ****** GMing. Quote:
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I do agree that combat will change with high dx/high armor characters. However, I wouldn’t expect such champions to be bothered by low-attribute warriors. That’s not my experience in nearly any game system (other than maybe Runequest). So I would be fine with that. And that kind of goes against what you were saying up above. If your PCs have DX 19 and 10 points of armor, it would be damn hard for an organization with mundane resources to take them on directly. Far better to engage with them socially or diplomatically…you know, good fodder for game sessions! This is also a problem with the system not being built with 'high level' options. I hope that TFT eventually gets them. The new Exper and Master Talents are a good example of stuff in that direction. I think if we got more of it, this would be less threatening to GMs. Quote:
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But some desperate sorts will do that, sure. What I’m interested in is whether there is some sort of lightning protection that can be added to magic items. If something that cost 300K could be wiped out easily, you would expect people to develop a countermeasure. |
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06-19-2019, 04:15 AM | #24 | |
Join Date: Nov 2017
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Re: The (Unintentional?) MMO End Game of TFT
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And this isn't really about whether I want the cap or not. This is about the impact the RAW rules have on the game and the game world. This is something that players will perform (if they desire longevity in their characters) and that NPCs have arguably already done. Perhaps this explains the ridiculously high stats of Tollenkar, for example, something that has caused more than one poster to scratch their heads in confusion. |
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06-19-2019, 04:24 AM | #25 | |
Join Date: Nov 2017
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Re: The (Unintentional?) MMO End Game of TFT
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Also, I don't rock up to a fantasy game to play something realistic. What is realistic about throwing lightning bolts and flying, rubbing shoulders with gargoyles and lizard men? Why is that lack of realism acceptable, but having humans performing incredible feats of strength or dexterity (you know, like Conan who regularly did the impossible) 'unrealistic'? |
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06-19-2019, 04:26 AM | #26 | |
Join Date: Nov 2017
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Re: The (Unintentional?) MMO End Game of TFT
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Still, that's not that big of a deal nor does it chance the character's activities, all it does is change the optimal character build (16, 14, 10 for example, or 18, 13, 9 or something). |
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06-19-2019, 04:28 AM | #27 | |
Join Date: Nov 2017
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Re: The (Unintentional?) MMO End Game of TFT
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06-19-2019, 04:33 AM | #28 | |
Join Date: Nov 2017
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Re: The (Unintentional?) MMO End Game of TFT
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And see, if I hadn't shown this thought experiment people probably wouldn't have noticed that exploit! |
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06-19-2019, 04:35 AM | #29 |
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: London Uk, but originally from Scotland
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Re: The (Unintentional?) MMO End Game of TFT
TFT isn't really well suited to long term play with "levelling up" or mechanical character advancement. That's because advancement is via attribute increase and since there are only three attributes there's not many places to level up. Powerful characters have high scores in all three attributes and so get a bit samey.
Legacy Edition has tried to address this by putting a cap on attribute increase and allowing increased Talents beyond the IQ limit. I'm not really a fan of that because it seems to break the simplicity of the basic game, but it's certainly one solution. I'm unlikely to be able to play a long running campaign game again like I did in the past so it probably won't be an issue for me. But if I did, I'd rather have more attributes so there are more places to put the XP points. That's what I did in my long running games of the past. |
06-19-2019, 04:43 AM | #30 |
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: London Uk, but originally from Scotland
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Re: The (Unintentional?) MMO End Game of TFT
As an example, instead of Tollenkar being ST12 DX16 IQ20
He could be: ST8 CN12 DX16 AG9 IQ20 KN20+ Since he's fuelling spells with Constitution (CN) he doesn't need to be physically strong this ST8. Since he's casting spells with DX he doesn't need to be Agile (AG). And, although he needs IQ20 for Word of Command, his Knowledge (KN) or number of spells and Talents known is potentially unlimited. I prefer this approach to "levelling up" |
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