Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-05-2018, 12:35 AM   #11
Ultraviolet
 
Ultraviolet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Århus, Denmark
Default Re: Moving with Wait maneuver

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomsdad View Post
There was a thread where stepping while waiting was discussed, mainly as part of "slicing the pie" but the basic concept was discussed.
Yes, I seemed to remember that exact discussion, back when I got hold of TS. Thanks for finding and linking to it.

It seems a Step-and-Wait is allowed; Douglas Cole, Hans, and Dr. Kromm said to, even though it may not be completely clear in TS.

But not a Move together with Wait per se, just the short Step. That allows for slow-and-sure Slicing the Pie. For quick-and-dirty do a Move and Attack, with the clause that you evaluate, in order to avoid shooting if there is not target. Because you likely don't know if there is a target until you move into line of sight of it.
__________________
Playing GURPS since '90, is now fluent in 4th ed as well.
Ultraviolet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2018, 03:51 AM   #12
Tomsdad
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Brighton
Default Re: Moving with Wait maneuver

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultraviolet View Post
Yes, I seemed to remember that exact discussion, back when I got hold of TS. Thanks for finding and linking to it.

No worries

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultraviolet View Post
It seems a Step-and-Wait is allowed; Douglas Cole, Hans, and Dr. Kromm said to, even though it may not be completely clear in TS.

But not a Move together with Wait per se, just the short Step. That allows for slow-and-sure Slicing the Pie. For quick-and-dirty do a Move and Attack, with the clause that you evaluate, in order to avoid shooting if there is not target. Because you likely don't know if there is a target until you move into line of sight of it.
Yep, pretty much.

I don't think I'd allow more than a step's worth of movement to be done with a wait.
__________________
Grand High* Poobah of the Cult of Stat Normalisation.
*not too high of course
Tomsdad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2018, 04:56 AM   #13
Ultraviolet
 
Ultraviolet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Århus, Denmark
Default Re: Moving with Wait maneuver

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomsdad View Post

I don't think I'd allow more than a step's worth of movement to be done with a wait.
Yes, that seems enough. Otherwise do a Move and Attack.
I also agree with the opinion that if the Step is taken before/at the same time as the Wait then there is no more movement.

And that a Step and Wait into the LOS of a stationary person (a "camper") waiting target does *not* allow the camper to shoot first automatically because 'the Step triggered his Wait, before the other guy's Wait took place'
__________________
Playing GURPS since '90, is now fluent in 4th ed as well.
Ultraviolet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2018, 05:59 AM   #14
Tomsdad
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Brighton
Default Re: Moving with Wait maneuver

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultraviolet View Post
Yes, that seems enough. Otherwise do a Move and Attack.
I also agree with the opinion that if the Step is taken before/at the same time as the Wait then there is no more movement.
Yeah I see your point but I'd likely take a view on what the triggered movement was. (another Step I might allow it and might well rule it has knock on effect on the action that goes with it, a whole move I probably subject teh step form teh total)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultraviolet View Post
And that a Step and Wait into the LOS of a stationary person (a "camper") waiting target does *not* allow the camper to shoot first automatically because 'the Step triggered his Wait, before the other guy's Wait took place'
for me it would depend on if the stationary 'wait-er' was reasonably a target the step'n'wait-er's, wait was taken in mind of.

e.g. a camper is in a room covering the doorway with a wait "I'll shoot anyone coming into the doorway", outside the room someone in slicing the pie with a wait "Ill slowly slice the pie and shoot anyone I see in the room as they are revealed". I'd resolve this as per Slicing the Pie in TS (and the linked thread), i.e. a QS but the step'n'wait-er is penalised.


But if say that room had no roof and there was also a sniper crouched on balcony two stories up and 100m away covering that doorway with their own wait, as well as eh chap in the room. I'd probably let that Sniper wait go first automatically once the step'n'wait-er moved into the doorway
__________________
Grand High* Poobah of the Cult of Stat Normalisation.
*not too high of course

Last edited by Tomsdad; 07-06-2018 at 04:00 AM.
Tomsdad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2018, 06:31 PM   #15
lachimba
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Sydney
Default Re: Moving with Wait maneuver

Quote:
Originally Posted by evileeyore View Post
Your Player is wrong. You can't move when you declare the Wait, but you get whatever Move is allowed by the Maneuver (Attack, Feint, All-Out Attack, or Ready) that you turn the Wait into when triggered.


And you are wrong. Move and Attack (the only full Move and attack option) is not allowed under Wait.



I mean, I allow it, but then I allow all Maneuvers under a Wait.
Quote:
Wait
Do nothing unless an event you
specified in advance occurs before
your next turn; e.g., a foe moves into
range. If that happens, you may
transform your Wait into an Attack,
Feint, All-Out Attack (you must spec-
ify the option before acting), or
Ready maneuver. You interrupt the
turn sequence, but it resumes after
you’ve acted.
Specify your action and its trigger
when you take the Wait maneuver.
You may Wait with a ready ranged
weapon if you have specified the zone
that you are covering
.



No, you are wrong.


Move is not allowed (I typed move, but it should have been Move).


Secondly All Out Attack IS allowed. And you can All Out Attack Slam for full move, not to mention half Move on a vanilla All Out Attack.

This was entirely the point I was making.

You can move your full move (say 10 hexes) on an All out attack slam after a wait, but you can't MOVE say 3 hexes... it seems odd.
lachimba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2018, 07:08 PM   #16
GWJ
 
GWJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Default Re: Moving with Wait maneuver

Quote:
Originally Posted by lachimba View Post
.



No, you are wrong.


Move is not allowed (I typed move, but it should have been Move).


Secondly All Out Attack IS allowed. And you can All Out Attack Slam for full move, not to mention half Move on a vanilla All Out Attack.

This was entirely the point I was making.

You can move your full move (say 10 hexes) on an All out attack slam after a wait, but you can't MOVE say 3 hexes... it seems odd.
It's optional rule from Martial Arts, but also it's interesting addon to discussion :) Wait with maneuver allowing full Move.

ALSO this, from FAQ:
Quote:
3.4.2.13 Why does the Wait maneuver not allow you to take the "move and attack" or "move" maneuvers?
Because if you spend some or most of a turn waiting, you're not using that time to move. Even allowing a step (for an Attack) or half-move (for an All-Out Attack) is optimistic. We felt that allowing a full move would be wrong. GURPS is an abstraction, but it simply makes no sense to let someone who can move, say, 5 yards in 1 second wait for 0.75 second and then cover 5 yards in 0.25 second. That would mean he's moving at Move 20, not Move 5.
100% agree - but in situation when we have someone who can move 1 yard AND make an attack in 1 second, and we will let him wait for 0.75 second and then cover 1 yard and make an attack, we have the same situation: extra 0.75 sec. I think it should allow greater variety of maneuvers but with for example just half move allowed by maneuver (for example: 1/2 Move for maneuvers "Move" and "Move and Attack", 1/4 Move for AOAttack and AODefense, and Move 0 for maneuvers with just Step allowed). If every maneuver would have move penalty, I think it wouldn't be this "why I can't move and step before trigger" issue.


I think this "Wait and move" issue is really, really deserving for Pyramid article about this topic, with clarification and optional rules :)

Last edited by GWJ; 07-05-2018 at 07:28 PM.
GWJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2018, 07:18 PM   #17
lachimba
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Sydney
Default Re: Moving with Wait maneuver

Quote:
Originally Posted by GWJ View Post
It's optional rule from Martial Arts
Regardless. Assuming half move forward thats a substantial move (could be for example four plus hexes). Versus say a Move for two or three hexes.
lachimba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2018, 01:12 AM   #18
evileeyore
Banned
 
evileeyore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: 100 hurricane swamp
Default Re: Moving with Wait maneuver

Quote:
Originally Posted by lachimba View Post
No, you are wrong.
Maybe you'd like to read the paragraph labeled "Movement" under Wait?

Here:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Basic pg 366
Movement: None until your Wait is triggered. At that point, you may move as allowed by the maneuver you specified (Attack, Feint, All-Out Attack, or Ready).
Note the part "you may move as allowed by the maneuver you specified".

Quote:
Secondly All Out Attack IS allowed. And you can All Out Attack Slam for full move, not to mention half Move on a vanilla All Out Attack.
Out of Martial Arts. No, I didn't go double check Martial Arts. Not everyone allows it and I've forgotten that as I don't use that bit.

Quote:
This was entirely the point I was making.

You can move your full move (say 10 hexes) on an All out attack slam after a wait, but you can't MOVE say 3 hexes... it seems odd.
And the point you are making is incorrect as you can move up to half your Movement with All Out Attack. Or if you're allowing the slam variant from Martial Arts, your full Movement.
evileeyore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2018, 06:49 AM   #19
GWJ
 
GWJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Default Re: Moving with Wait maneuver

Quote:
Originally Posted by evileeyore View Post
Maybe you'd like to read the paragraph labeled "Movement" under Wait?

Here:


Note the part "you may move as allowed by the maneuver you specified".
But with context

Quote:
Movement: None until your Wait is triggered. At that point, you may move as allowed by the maneuver you specified (Attack, Feint, All-Out Attack, or Ready).
Quote:
At that point
"that point" is moment when your Wait is triggered.

By RAW, you are motionless whole time. Only when your specified trigger will happen, you can transfer Wait into specified maneuver. Before trigger you are do nothing all the time, just standing still and waiting for trigger.
GWJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2018, 08:37 AM   #20
Tomsdad
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Brighton
Default Re: Moving with Wait maneuver

I don't think evileeyore has said otherwise about RAW?

Here's what they posted originally (I've bolded for emphasis)


Quote:
Originally Posted by evileeyore View Post
Your Player is wrong. You can't move when you declare the Wait, but you get whatever Move is allowed by the Maneuver (Attack, Feint, All-Out Attack, or Ready) that you turn the Wait into when triggered.


And you are wrong. Move and Attack (the only full Move and attack option) is not allowed under Wait.



I mean, I allow it, but then I allow all Maneuvers under a Wait.
__________________
Grand High* Poobah of the Cult of Stat Normalisation.
*not too high of course
Tomsdad is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:36 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.