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Old 08-02-2019, 08:03 AM   #1
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Gargoyle fist damage

Melee and Wizard and the Summon Gargoyle spell list gargoyles as ST 20 doing 2d with their fists in both regular and HTH combat.

Original ITL suggested PCs as gargoyles start at ST 16 and do 2d damage.

Legacy Edition ITL suggests PCs as gargoyles start at ST 13 and do 2d damage.

Legacy Edition ITL also has a new 1-point IQ 7 Brawling talent that says it has punches do +1 damage and a (suspect, to me) "dirty drawling" option that says it does +2 damage (only one short of a dagger in HTH... seems excessive to me unless it's only in some brawl and/or surprise situation, not all combat).

Several people both on the forums and in new adventures have suggested Brawling should increase gargoyle punch damage.

In hope of making sense of all of this, my suggestion is:

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Gargoyles use the ST-based damage table in ITL, plus 1d-1.
Most gargoyles learn Brawling, which adds +1 to their fist damage.

Summoned gargoyles and illusion gargoyles don't have brawling.

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This means:

ST 20 gargoyles do 2d damage without Brawling, or 2d+1 with Brawling.
ST 16 gargoyles do 2d-1 damage without Brawling, or 2d with Brawling.
ST 13 gargoyles do 2d-2 damage without Brawling or 2d-1 with Brawling.
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Old 08-02-2019, 08:08 AM   #2
MikMod
 
Join Date: May 2019
Default Re: Gargoyle fist damage

This sounds very sensible.

My question is: Are they getting the bonus for 'fists of stone' or because of their 'claws'?

I'm wondering about UAC as well...
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Old 08-02-2019, 11:56 AM   #3
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: Gargoyle fist damage

Stone fists versus claws in TFT seems like a flavor interpretation up to the GM, to me. I'm not sure what the difference would be other than how we imagine it?


As for Unarmed Combat, I would certainly allow it, and there was a Q&A in original TFT that said probably yes IIRC. However I would not have it stack with Brawling, and it's difficult for gargoyles to get enough IQ to learn higher levels of Unarmed Combat than the first level of the talent, which only gives +1 to the basic punch (same as brawling, but with the Kick option for +2 at -4 DX).
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Old 08-02-2019, 01:16 PM   #4
zot
 
Join Date: May 2018
Default Re: Gargoyle fist damage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skarg View Post
Stone fists versus claws in TFT seems like a flavor interpretation up to the GM, to me. I'm not sure what the difference would be other than how we imagine it?


As for Unarmed Combat, I would certainly allow it, and there was a Q&A in original TFT that said probably yes IIRC. However I would not have it stack with Brawling, and it's difficult for gargoyles to get enough IQ to learn higher levels of Unarmed Combat than the first level of the talent, which only gives +1 to the basic punch (same as brawling, but with the Kick option for +2 at -4 DX).
I like this idea a lot!

If I were to play a gargoyle long-term, I'd make sure he was with a wizard who was willing to summon greater demons to get a chance for higher IQ and UC. I think new XP and talent system might actually make it worse for gargoyle players because the talent choices are so limited for them...
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