Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-10-2018, 04:05 PM   #41
Mysterious Dark Lord v3.2
 
Mysterious Dark Lord v3.2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: The deep dark haunted woods
Default Re: Marvel/DC World-Character Supers Building

If your reboot is going to include the X-Men, then you'll have to deal with the whole "mutant issue" baggage.

Why just mutants? And how do Superman and Wonder Woman avoid being accidentally designated as mutants? (That whole "sentient mutant-hating disease" thing just doesn't wash with me.) The irrationality of mutants being singled out for mass bigotry while all other super-beings are accepted on individual merit can warp the entire world background. Not to mention the Sentinels.

If you're wanting to include the X-Men, you'll have to decide whether or not there is a "mutant issue", how it affects the DC Heroes in the world, and if no "mutant issue", how would the whole X-Men franchise have to be adjusted? It's a big deal.
__________________
"When you talk about damage radius, even atomic weapons pale before that of an unfettered idiot in a position of power."
- Sam Starfall from the webcomic Freefall
Mysterious Dark Lord v3.2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2018, 08:37 PM   #42
Culture20
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Default Re: Marvel/DC World-Character Supers Building

Spider-Man was routinely called a freak, even after it was known he was not a mutant. And Wonder Man, with obviously non-human features, was a celebrity with few detractors. In the Marvel universe, some people have a belief that mutants are the next species of homo sapiens and that they’ll do the same thing that homo sapiens sapiens did to homo sapiens neaderthalensis (supplant, either by killing or interbreeding), and some mutants have explicitly made such overtures, increasing public paranoid racism.
Humans who have been altered by science or accident of fate aren’t born with their powers, so the public doesn’t believe them to be another (sub)species, mostly because very few people know that the altered humans are usually genetically altered and usually bear mutant children (Franklin Storm being the most well known).
In a mixed universe, aliens to human society like Superman, Thor, Wonder Woman, Aquaman, and the Sub-Mariner would be viewed by their alien status first; Namor is a mutant, but people see him as an Atlantean instead of half homo sapiens superior.
Aliens tend to get this treatment in DC, and sometimes metahumans in general, but they’re always short term stories or isolated bigots instead of a systemic culture of hate.
Culture20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2018, 10:35 AM   #43
naloth
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Default Re: Marvel/DC World-Character Supers Building

There was actually a good FF story line of how Reed made the FF celebrities deliberately, knowing that they would either be feared or celebrated. It was a secret PR campaign that the others were not aware of.

As it was the start of the heroic era, it laid groundwork for other celebrity heroes and teams. Having WW2 hero Captain America take over the Avengers certainly helped solidify their status as public heroes as well...
naloth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2018, 12:37 PM   #44
Plane
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Default Re: Marvel/DC World-Character Supers Building

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mysterious Dark Lord v3.2 View Post
how do Superman and Wonder Woman avoid being accidentally designated as mutants?
"We're non-human aliens, not mutated humans"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mysterious Dark Lord v3.2 View Post
The irrationality of mutants being singled out for mass bigotry while all other super-beings are accepted on individual merit can warp the entire world background.
Spider-Man has been the target of persecution by the police, I wouldn't be surprised if some people thought he was a mutant since he doesn't give exposees about where his abilities come from.

The best basis of comparison would be the Fantastic Four. In their case, they have public identities and because of the "cosmic rays" origin, people don't have the same "children could be born this way!" fear as with spontaneous mutants.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Culture20 View Post
Wonder Man, with obviously non-human features, was a celebrity with few detractors.
He's a consented experiment who got strength/durabilty so it's a similar vein as Captain America I guess. If we compare them to someone like Colossus, there isn't any fear of "he will impregnate a generation of women with metal babies who will go on a killing spree" because experiments aren't hereditary.
Plane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2018, 02:43 PM   #45
David Johnston2
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Default Re: Marvel/DC World-Character Supers Building

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mysterious Dark Lord v3.2 View Post
If your reboot is going to include the X-Men, then you'll have to deal with the whole "mutant issue" baggage.

Why just mutants?
  1. Mutants were the most common type of superhuman back in the day. In order to be a hated minority, a group must be sufficiently numerous that they will be regarded as a group rather than as individuals.
  2. Magneto is a moron. He first introduced mutants into general public awareness with acts of flashy public criminality. Other supervillains generally do not claim to be acting on behalf of anyone except themselves. Magneto painted the entire population with infamy while defining them as a group in the public mind.
  3. Xavier is a moron. Is there any good reason whatsoever to exclude teenagers who had other origins from his school/team?
  4. Mutants come in two flavours. The ones who are phenotypically odd (disfigured) at birth and may or may not gradually develop powers and the ones who are normal enough-look but suddenly manifest superpowers as teenagers, often when under hormonally driven stress. Or to put it another way, a mutant frequently makes his debut as a super by hospitalizing or killing another student in school.
  5. "Homo superior". Is there really any better way to put homo inferior's backs up?
David Johnston2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2018, 10:33 PM   #46
Flyndaran
Untagged
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Forest Grove, Beaverton, Oregon
Default Re: Marvel/DC World-Character Supers Building

Spiderman was mutated by a spider bite. He's literally more of a mutant than super powered individuals who inherited their abilities from their parents.
And the irony of Magneto being effectively a type of neo-Nazi is his whole shtick.

X-Men have very different themes from the 4-color Superman, etc. so I don't think they work well in the same setting. Other than very careful one-offs.
__________________
Beware, poor communication skills. No offense intended. If offended, it just means that I failed my writing skill check.
Flyndaran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2018, 11:15 PM   #47
Plane
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Default Re: Marvel/DC World-Character Supers Building

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyndaran View Post
And the irony of Magneto being effectively a type of neo-Nazi is his whole shtick.
You had to
Plane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2018, 11:25 PM   #48
Phantasm
 
Phantasm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: On the road again...
Default Re: Marvel/DC World-Character Supers Building

A lot of the problems mentioned stem from the Silver Age, when the antagonists were required basically by law to call themselves "Evil", usually in a mustache-twirling manner. This is prevalent in many of the groups from that time period: Masters of Evil, Emissaries of Evil, Brotherhood of Evil Mutants, etc.

(This is one problem I've encountered with my Reboot project. The Brotherhood of Evil Mutants can easily drop the "Evil" part, being simply "Brotherhood of Mutants", but "Masters of Evil", while an iconic name, just strikes me as dumb. Why call yourself "Evil"? ... Of course, I gave my one villain group in my Shadowguard game the name "The Terrors", but hey, they're in the service of a guy who literally calls himself "Mr. Sinister". Which the party has commented on multiple times.)
__________________
"Life ... is an Oreo cookie." - J'onn J'onzz, 1991

"But mom, I don't wanna go back in the dungeon!"

The GURPS Marvel Universe Reboot Project A-G, H-R, and S-Z, and its not-a-wiki-really web adaptation.
Ranoc, a Muskets-and-Magery Renaissance Fantasy Setting
Phantasm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2018, 10:28 AM   #49
Culture20
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Default Re: Marvel/DC World-Character Supers Building

“The Masters” works for a villain group intent on political domination. Unless the campaign has a character with a golf theme; then it could be confusing.
“We’ve seen your recent bad press from the DA accusing you of robbing the fifth national bank, Caddy-Man. How would you like to join The Masters?!”
“Boy would I!”
Culture20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2018, 12:27 PM   #50
Plane
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Default Re: Marvel/DC World-Character Supers Building

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantasm View Post
A lot of the problems mentioned stem from the Silver Age, when the antagonists were required basically by law to call themselves "Evil", usually in a mustache-twirling manner. This is prevalent in many of the groups from that time period: Masters of Evil, Emissaries of Evil, Brotherhood of Evil Mutants, etc.

(This is one problem I've encountered with my Reboot project. The Brotherhood of Evil Mutants can easily drop the "Evil" part, being simply "Brotherhood of Mutants", but "Masters of Evil", while an iconic name, just strikes me as dumb. Why call yourself "Evil"? ... Of course, I gave my one villain group in my Shadowguard game the name "The Terrors", but hey, they're in the service of a guy who literally calls himself "Mr. Sinister". Which the party has commented on multiple times.)
I could see some villains doing this because perhaps someone else called them "evil" first and they're just "owning it" or appropriating the term to be self-empowering.

X-Men 4 on the cover and credits page talks about "The Brotherhood of Evil Mutants" (they use quotes) and on page 9 Xavier says "the evil mutants!, page 19 Marvel Girl only refers to the group as "Magneto's men", page 21 Prof X again "the evil mutants are as powerful as we"...

Stan's note on the final (23rd) page refers to "the powerful evil mutants" but strangely there's no mention I could find in this issue within the actual text of "brotherhood" or similar. Can anyone find an example of BOEM being used in the actual dialogue of characters, and if so, self-referentially?
Plane is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
3rd edition, supers, world building

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:26 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.