Can a Navy SEAL be made for 200 cps?

[copeab]

Originally Posted by cmdicely

Hmm. While its perhaps less believable as inborn, its probably not as potentially unbalancing if a Talent includes a combat skill but is not a "combat talent" (that is, just a Talent for a pack of combat skills).

A combat Talent in a military game is no more unbalancing than a science Talent in a scientific game.

Brandon

[Luther]

Originally Posted by jspade

Autohypnosis (p. B179) is not flagged in the Basic Set as being a cinematic skill;

To my knowledge no Skill is flagged as being cinematic in G4 (altough some require cinematic talents as prerequisites).

[cmdicely]

Originally Posted by copeab

A combat Talent in a military game is no more unbalancing than a science Talent in a scientific game.

I'm not entirely sure that's true; combat talents may be inherently more unbalanced simply because a small set of combat skills can cover most of the practical effect of a much larger set of combat skills, since most combat skills cover creating largely similar effects with different tools -- they are thus much more fungible than other skills.

Then again, that really only would apply to a 5-point combat talent; for the same reason, 10-15 point combat talents are probably a bad deal.

[Fnord-Fnairlane]

Originally Posted by copeab

A combat Talent in a military game is no more unbalancing than a science Talent in a scientific game.

"Combat Talent" exists - it's called DX.

Remember, we're roleplaying. No one actually plays a "science game" where you're all scientists, busily doing mundane post-graduate research work into the chelating of heavy metals with complex organic chemistry, and the highlight of the campaign is being published in a second tier Science journal, or finding a new chemical that reversibly binds to Mercury really well. That quote describes what one of my gaming friends does for his life - not what we play.

The closest most people get to a "Science Game" is playing "Idaho Jones", debonaire and dashing field Archeologist, complete with sexy sidekick, hat, whip and revolver. Sometimes he may actually roll against "science skills", but mostly he fights Nazis.

Most RPG games will be defined by conflict, be it physical, social, polical, economic, etc.

If you want to play "Accountants and Actuaries", feel free, and in such a game you should probably ban "mathematical ability" style talents, as they'd be as abusive in your game as "Ninja Talent" is in our ones.

The rest of us will be busy with our spaceships and dragons. Have fun.

[Tamar Cunha]

Originally Posted by Fnord-Fnairlane

"Combat Talent" exists - it's called DX.

Remember, we're roleplaying. No one actually plays a "science game" where you're all scientists, busily doing mundane post-graduate research work into the chelating of heavy metals with complex organic chemistry, and the highlight of the campaign is being published in a second tier Science journal, or finding a new chemical that reversibly binds to Mercury really well. That quote describes what one of my gaming friends does for his life - not what we play.

Yeah, I mean, who would want to actually roleplay-out data collection or sitting in front of the computer collating and analyzing the data? Lots of work, little nuggets of success. I mean, as a marine biology grad student, if I could just roll my "Marine Biology" Talent and pull off a good day's work...I would! It's often boring as hell.

Then I'd go do something fun! Like adventuring, spying, swashbuckler-ing, etc. whee!

[Kromm]

I totally agree. I spent 10 years working in physics. Anyone who wants to play that out in a game is mental. When I work on games, the "scientists" I have in mind are Buckaroo Banzai and Doc Savage. The perversity of games is that they must cram a massive diversity of sciences (or humanities, or fine arts . . . whatever) into sufficiently few skills that you can be a gifted expert without going bankrupt, while at the same time stretching a relatively small number of effects useful for Astounding Adventures across enough skills that every member of a good-sized group of PCs has a niche. The result is hundreds of sciences mapped down to a couple dozen skills and a few basic heroic tasks (manipulate people, whack people, break stuff, steal stuff, spot hidden stuff, and sneak) mapped up to an equal number of skills.

[copeab]

Originally Posted by Fnord-Fnairlane

"Combat Talent" exists - it's called DX.

By that reasoning, no Talents should exist, since they are covered by ST, DX, IQ or HT.

Originally Posted by Fnord-Fnairlane

Remember, we're roleplaying. No one actually plays a "science game" where you're all scientists, busily doing mundane post-graduate research work.

Exactly where did I say a science game should be all (or most, even) research work? And I don't appreciate your implication that, if I run a science oriented game, I'm not roleplaying. Playing the crew of a scientific ship checking out a strange nebula is just as much roleplaying as is playing a barbarian horde slaughtering villagers. If all you want is hack'n'slash, fine, but don't belittle those who don't.

Originally Posted by Fnord-Fnairlane

Most RPG games will be defined by conflict, be it physical, social, polical, economic, etc.

If you want to play "Accountants and Actuaries", feel free, and in such a game you should probably ban "mathematical ability" style talents, as they'd be as abusive in your game as "Ninja Talent" is in our ones.

You couldn't be more offensively condesending. Apparently you have never heard of "man vs the environment" as a conflict.

Brandon

[copeab]

Originally Posted by Kromm

I totally agree. I spent 10 years working in physics. Anyone who wants to play that out in a game is mental. When I work on games, the "scientists" I have in mind are Buckaroo Banzai and Doc Savage.

So you don't think anyone wants to play characters like Gil Grissom or Greg House?

Brandon

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by copeab

So you don't think anyone wants to play characters like Gil Grissom or Greg House?

My honest answer is "Who and who?" I'm a former scientist and pretty familiar with real scientists, and a fairly geeky cinemaphile, too, but I don't watch TV, period. I'm guessing these are TV characters. What do they do?

[Kromm]

I, at least, am talking about skills, not professions. Fiction and real life are full of interesting inventors, scientists, soldiers, etc. There are probably remarkable accountants and business administrators, too. But what makes them interesting as potential heroes in an RPG is neither their primary job skills nor the day-to-day use of those skills to do their jobs. What makes them interesting are all the improbable and challenging surprises that they face in the course of doing what should be relatively "safe" jobs.

The spacefaring scientist isn't interesting because she knows Astronomy and Physics, or because the game gives those skills some big role to play. She's interesting because her ship almost breaks down . . . and then a weird phenomenon nearly kills her crew . . . and then the space pirates attack . . . and then the New Earth Government mysteriously puts her on the "Most Wanted" list. Being a scientist is her hook into these plots, but her science skills aren't half as important as her spacefaring, combat, and social skills.

It's a crucial decision. I really don't think that most gamers would get much out of a campaign that chronicles the workaday life of a believable, if slightly above-average professional. Sure, that can be a good TV show or movie, but those aren't the best inspirations for games. I think that most gamers who create soldiers expect commando raids, secret missions for the spooks, trials of new weapons, etc. I suspect that most players of scientists want the weird phenomena and space pirates.