[Powers] Accessibility, Only Above or Below %HP or %FP

[JCurwen3]

Is there any official or semi-official / widely used generic way to calculate Accessibility limitation values for these?

Basically, "ability works while you still have 40% of HP remaining", or "ability works once you are below 30% FP".

Obviously won't be appropriate for every kind of ability, but still, curious.

[Joel]

If it's at levels where you get penalties for having low HP or FP, I think it could count as a limitation (not sure of value though).

[JCurwen3]

Originally Posted by Joel

If it's at levels where you get penalties for having low HP or FP, I think it could count as a limitation (not sure of value though).

My purpose for asking is that it would be nice to build abilities that lose some or all of their power at certain HP or FP thresholds, much the same way Move and Dodge (and also ST for FP loss) are halved built into the system at 1/3 HP or FP.

So, for instance, if I had a 4d Innate Attack, and I wanted it to be halved in power at 1/3 FP, then I'd apply Accessibility, Only above 1/3 FP, -??% to half (in this case 2d) of its levels.

1/3 is just an example threshold... ideally I'm looking for a bit more flexibility, a good general guideline for defining the Accessibility value for only working above arbitrary percentages of total remaining HP and FP.

And the other part of the question was regarding powers that only work when you're already in the red (badly injured or fatigued). Certainly it's a big limitation of the ability won't work until you are at only 1/3 HP, and even bigger if you need to be at -2xHP (when, by then, you may already have passed out or died).

[Raekai]

Reviving this thread. Wouldn't mind seeing an answer/idea after stumbling upon it.

Anyone? :)

[BaHalus]

Originally Posted by JCurwen3

My purpose for asking is that it would be nice to build abilities that lose some or all of their power at certain HP or FP thresholds, much the same way Move and Dodge (and also ST for FP loss) are halved built into the system at 1/3 HP or FP.

So, for instance, if I had a 4d Innate Attack, and I wanted it to be halved in power at 1/3 FP, then I'd apply Accessibility, Only above 1/3 FP, -??% to half (in this case 2d) of its levels.

1/3 is just an example threshold... ideally I'm looking for a bit more flexibility, a good general guideline for defining the Accessibility value for only working above arbitrary percentages of total remaining HP and FP.

And the other part of the question was regarding powers that only work when you're already in the red (badly injured or fatigued). Certainly it's a big limitation of the ability won't work until you are at only 1/3 HP, and even bigger if you need to be at -2xHP (when, by then, you may already have passed out or died).

Maybe only in emergencies could be an interesting reference to this second one. To the first one, maybe limited use could be a reference (specially if the power uses the source that limits it)

Only with full hit points can be much more limiting if the power itself uses hit points, than if you can use a few times before getting hit (Zelda, a link to the past, one of my favorite games.)

The hp version can be pretty limiting in a scenario without fast healing. In a scenario with fast healing, maybe a mitigator could be applied to the value.

[jeff_wilson]

Originally Posted by Raekai

Reviving this thread. Wouldn't mind seeing an answer/idea after stumbling upon it.

Anyone? :)

Linked is +10% for abilities that have to be used together, and +20% for ones that can be used together or separately. This implies that abilities that the separability is worth about 1/12 of the total of each ability. If you treat this as as case of the attack being linked to some notional ability that lets you run around at full Move and Dodge, and the attack stops working when the notional ability stops working, but the ability works or doesn't independent of the attack, then on the attack only, it's possibly worth about -8% or more. Half-power would make it -4%.

Other posters may be able to offer additional rationales to get the limitations higher.

[the_matrix_walker]

Well, there's not much in the RAW to help us here. The only Advantage based reference to fractional HP having an impact on the value of abilities (IIRC) is

Originally Posted by Basic Set 1 Characters

Symptom (BS p. 109)
If the threshold for the Symptom is 2/3 the victim’s basic HP, use the cost under Affliction. If the threshold is 1/2 basic HP, double this cost. If it’s 1/3 basic HP, triple this cost.

This is a little different of course, but the values seem like the best place to start.
reduced by 2/3 basic HP, Listed Cost
reduced by 1/2 basic HP, x2
reduced by 1/3 Basic HP, x3

Now this needs to be inverted, because we're talking about a limitation for a power based on the character's HP not an ability that already does damage having added effects, but that leaves us with no value for the first threshold level. since 1/2 HP is half when inverted, and 1/3 HP is 1/3 I would place 2/3 at... you guessed it 2/3! This is a little too generous a discount IMHO, and a little clunky. Since the character always has the option of letting themselves be injured or injuring themselves, it should be adjusted a bit.

Put this all together and I would price it thusly...

Accessibility, Only when damaged: Your power only works when your body is stressed from damage. If even one point of damage gives you access to your abilities, this is a -10% accessibility modifier. If your body must be stressed to the point where it affects your movement and other capabilities, the limitation is as follows

reduced by at least 1 HP, -10%
reduced by 1/3 Basic HP, -20%
reduced by 1/2 basic HP, -40%
reduced by 2/3 basic HP, -60%

But that's just my cobbled together take on it...

[JCurwen3]

Originally Posted by jeff_wilson

Linked is +10% for abilities that have to be used together, and +20% for ones that can be used together or separately. This implies that abilities that the separability is worth about 1/12 of the total of each ability. If you treat this as as case of the attack being linked to some notional ability that lets you run around at full Move and Dodge, and the attack stops working when the notional ability stops working, but the ability works or doesn't independent of the attack, then on the attack only, it's possibly worth about -8% or more. Half-power would make it -4%.

Other posters may be able to offer additional rationales to get the limitations higher.

Hmmm. Okay, this made me think, and I'm going to propose another possible way to derive a value.

We could treat this as though some of your HP are Alternative Abilities (AAs) of this one ability. Let's assume selling the HP down to buy it back up as AAs without counting it towards any disadvantage limit. Then we can just find the point discount you got on your sold down HPs bought right back up as AAs, tying them to one or more levels of the ability, or just to the entire ability if it shuts down at some point.

This approach has the advantage that you can define arbitrary HP thresholds, and it's basically RAW. It has the disadvantage that this "limitation" won't change in value based on your abilities but rather based on your HP, and it also doesn't scale with multiple co-functional abilities with the same limitation (and in fact building it this way would be impossible by RAW since as far as I know a trait, like HP, can't be treated as an AA of multiple distinct abilities, although I can't see the harm in it other than feeling unfair points-wise to the player).

If we start with a high value advantage like ATR, and have it stop working at 1/2 HP, then in an average HP character you'd sell down 5 HP, and buy them back up at 1/5 cost. I'm not sure if by RAW you'd apply that value to the whole 5 HP you'd buy back (which would make it HP +5 (AA) [2*5*1/5 = 2]) or to each individual HP (so HP +1 (AA) [2*1/5 = min value of 1] five times for [5] total). The first way they got a savings of a whopping (sarcasm) [8], and the second way they get a savings of [5]. This'd translate into a -5% to -8% limitatior for ATR 1, only -2% to -4% for ATR 2, -10% to -16% for a [50] value ability, and of course would change if the character bought up or sold down HP from 10. Not to mention how damn cruddy and complicated it is.

So actually, no... not a way to go. Just wanted to play with an Alternative (no pun intended)... :-)

[the_matrix_walker]

I'd love it if our beloved Line Editor or his illustrious first officer would chime in on this one!

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by jeff_wilson

Linked is +10% for abilities that have to be used together, and +20% for ones that can be used together or separately. This implies that abilities that the separability is worth about 1/12 of the total of each ability. If you treat this as as case of the attack being linked to some notional ability that lets you run around at full Move and Dodge, and the attack stops working when the notional ability stops working, but the ability works or doesn't independent of the attack, then on the attack only, it's possibly worth about -8% or more. Half-power would make it -4%.

Beg pardon? I'm having some comprehension issues, I guess... How does Link figure into it, and where does the '1/12 for separability' come from?

Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker

I'd love it if our beloved Line Editor or his illustrious first officer would chime in on this one!

The best way to get a response from them is to ask by email or PM. There's no guarantee that they will notice a particular inquiry in the forums.