What is Cidri's average tech?

[mark hill]

Why would someone like the Duke Dran want gunpowder?

Because he cannot field an army of 10,000 wizards .. there just arent that many around. But he could possibly arm that many musketeers and back them up with artillery .. Wizards would form 'special forces' kinda.

Im not saying dont have hunter gatherers or that city states dont exist .. I mean theyd hafta have the same values for their weapons/armour as a 'higher tech' mob. We literally cannot compute bronze or stone equipment with the current tables. Wed hafta assume they had steel equipment, like Zulus in the 1800s with their steel spears .. they could still have the FORMS of a less complex, tribal society ..

It means your neanderthals must mine and smelt iron, basically

[FireHorse]

Originally Posted by Shadekeep

Cidri is vast, far larger than Earth, and if we can still have pockets of Stone Age tribes living in remote rainforests here, there are certainly earlier Age cultures there.

Likewise, it's entirely possible that there are places with even higher tech levels — people to whom the inhabitants of Southern Elyntia seem backwards and primitive.

I am reminded of the Witchmen (evil scientists) in the Horseclans books by Robert Adams — survivors of our post-apocalyptic civilization, still maintaining 20th-21st century tech in a world that had otherwise fallen to late-Medieval levels.

[mark hill]

Yaas the witchmen .. drawing those 'odd L shaped metal clubs' lol

I often think about the Lords in the World of Tiers series .. pretty sure thats what inspired Mnoren (totally 110% sure actually) :)

[Shadekeep]

I get the point that the game system considers steel weaponry to be the baseline "norm", and thus it is a challenge to game earlier techs. One could make material adjustments, such a take away a point or two of damage from bronze edged weapons, or make flint/bone weapons simply less durable. I think history shows though that early tech was certainly equal to the task of killing people. ^_^

And as for gunpowder, remember that on Cidri it is simply less reliable a technology than on Earth, and thus less appealing. Not to mention the danger of carrying any quantity of it in an army when some number of your troops could be set alight by magical fire, thus creating walking bombs in the midst of any large deployment. The crossbow has a lot more benefits on Cidri than on Earth, and conceivably technological improvements would pursue that line more. I could see airguns being more attractive there than flintlocks, for example.

[Shadekeep]

Originally Posted by FireHorse

Likewise, it's entirely possible that there are places with even higher tech levels — people to whom the inhabitants of Southern Elyntia seem backwards and primitive.

Yep, I said as much as well. There is much more potential on Cidri for isolated pockets of development to be way out of synch with the world at large. Just imagine a highly development island nation who created robots or genetically engineered beings which then wiped out that civilisation and are slowly spreading out into the world...

[mark hill]

the only problem would be that the club would be (under the current rules) the best and only weapon that bronze age or toltec tech warriors would ever use. Bronze swords and more so, flint and glass edged swords, could just not compete with a humble short log

spring steel, necessary for airguns etc (pressurisation), is just centuries away .. medieval troops were terrified of guns due to their unreliability and unpredictability .. no real diff from Cidri (especially when frikkin insubstantial/invisible special forces visit your camp at night and cast a fire hex on your gunpowder wagon lol)

[Shadekeep]

Originally Posted by mark hill

the only problem would be that the club would be (under the current rules) the best and only weapon that bronze age or toltec tech warriors would ever use. Bronze swords and more so, flint and glass edged swords, could just not compete with a humble short log

Yah, that's the downside of the system using the baseline it does. I personally game the older tech as equivalent in damage but different in attributes. Bone weapons are more prone to breaking, bronze swords don't penetrate iron armor as well, etc. Plus the materials interact with magic and chemicals differently than iron and steel. But this kind of material science geekery is only useful for GMs who like having these world details. There's nothing saying you can't have a more technologically uniform world. I just get off on having a highly disparate one. ^_^

[Shadekeep]

Originally Posted by mark hill

spring steel, necessary for airguns etc (pressurisation), is just centuries away

From the article I linked:

The most widespread use of compressed air guns during the 15th century was for hunting.

So depending on the median era of your campaign world, airguns could be in use, or they could be just on the cusp of coming into being. Maybe some lone Engineer is building the first prototype, and the Wizard's Guild has hired your party to put him down!

[TippetsTX]

As presented, gunpowder is far too rare and expensive to allow for mass production of firearms and widespread use in large-scale organized warfare (again, assuming you stick with the default premise from ITL).

[mark hill]

mmm .. I just wish all the weapons in the tables did exactly 2 points more damage, and all steel armours stopped 2 more. It would make no diff at ALL to tech equal enemies, but it would allow us to have some tech wiggle room for jaunts to other earths