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Old 07-20-2006, 02:38 PM   #1
damon
 
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Default Is Tracking too easy?

My group does a lot of tracking. It's a medieval game and most of the stuff takes place outside of cities, so if every anyone goes anywhere in the wilderness.. it's tracking time. And through a meadow, that's no modifier.. +3 for following one man, so they're rolling against usually 16s or 17s.

If there's more than one person in the group they're following that's up to +6. I mean that's left a little fudgie.. but assume a group of men is 10.. half that would logically give a +3 for 5 guys. But I'd think normal definitions of a group would be 5 people is a group. So if that, then it'd be maybe +3 for 3 guys.

So now for following 3 guys across a meadow and through the woods they're at 19 or 20. Impossible to fail, especially if there's 2 other people to pick up the trail if one loses it.

if it's a few days old, that's -5... still 14 or 15 for 3 guys. So there's basically no way for them to not just follow them until they get on a road (not sure what the penalty would be for a rural track.. i'd guess roll at -3 every 10 minutes (somewhere between a mountain and urban) so there's still a decent chance of following them.

Moreover, the rules mention nothing about tracking slowing you down, so my group thinks they can track at full speed while travelling. I think this is silly, but I let it slide usually.

Now, I know the group will just track anyone anywhere, so I plan for that.. so I don't really mind from the point of view of it throwing off my planning or anything like that. It just seems a little silly sometimes.
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Old 07-20-2006, 06:19 PM   #2
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Default Re: Is Tracking too easy?

if I'm reading you right, you talking about tracking Skill around 13-14. and 14 is considered an expert. so unless the subject being track actually tries not to be track of course it should be easy.
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Old 07-20-2006, 06:59 PM   #3
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Default Re: Is Tracking too easy?

14 skill isn't allll that high. sure it's impressive. but to me it seems like this is a little overskilled, even for an 'expert'. But maybe that's because when I walk through a forest of hardpacked dirt with some twigs and stuff lying around I just don't understand how anyone could follow someone through it just by looking for bent stalks of grass and nicked off twigs or whatever. Especially at full speed..
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Old 07-20-2006, 07:07 PM   #4
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Default Re: Is Tracking too easy?

well...if you really want to...here are some suggestions for tracking modifiers:

are you characters tracking from horseback? give them a sight modifier for being close to 8 feet of the ground.

maybe their horses destroyed some of the clues?

did it rain? is there any inclement weather at all?

have the pursued obscured their tracks or laid false trails?

tracking at night is pretty difficult unless you have dark vision.

maybe different trackers have different opinions!! ;)

hope these ideas are helpful!!

i.o.c.
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Old 07-20-2006, 07:10 PM   #5
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Default Re: Is Tracking too easy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by damon
14 skill isn't allll that high.

no according to B172 "Experts: Once your skill level reaches 14 additional levels don't improve your odds of success much."
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Old 07-20-2006, 07:18 PM   #6
Kyle Aaron
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Default Re: Is Tracking too easy?

There are a number of things to consider here: tracking does slow you down, "density" of terrain, finding tracks vs following tracks, counter-tracking, observation and ambush.

Firstly, tracking does definitely slow you down, just as using Observation as you travel slows you down. If you push along at maximum move, as in Hiking, the natural human tendency is to look down at your feet, or just in front of you; as you make a physical effort, you narrow your mental focus to the immediate task. Part of Hiking skill is to know to look up and forward, you get tired more slowly that way.

If your players don't believe that moving and Tracking/Observing is slower than just moving along, ask them to walk past your bookshelf. Then ask them, "name seven books on that bookshelf."

Exactly how much does Tracking/Observation slow you down? Well, this depends on what trackers sometimes call the "density" of the terrain. "Dense" terrain is terrain with lots of stuff for travelling animals and people to disturb - bushes, trees, jungle vines, spider webs, boxes and dust in old buildings, gravel, etc. So your classic salt lake is very "diffuse" terrain, there's not much to leave tracks on, but it's easy to Observe through. Whereas your classic jungle is "dense" terrain, you can't possibly move through it without disturbing something - even perhaps hacking your way through - but it's hard to Observe through.

You also have to distnguish between finding tracks, and following tracks. The finding is the harder part, usually. Once found, not so difficult to follow. If the group has a fight and the foes run away, and after patching up their wounds and sorting out their gear the group wants to follow the fleeing enemy, it should be pretty easy to find their tracks - you saw which way they ran, so you know where to look. But if you're looking for "this guy who went into that thousand-acre forest over there", then okay, you're going to be looking for a while, even if he blundered through like a rhinoceros.

So, finding tracks and Observation is made easier by "diffuse" terrain, and made harder by "dense" terrain. Following tracks is made harder by "diffuse" terrain, but easier by "dense" terrain.

Now, what you also want to consider is that no terrain is wholly diffuse or dense. Salt lakes will have little patches of loose salt which will take imprints of boots. Even the densest jungle will have the remains of some old rocky ridge line somewhere, devoid of vegetation.

This brings in counter-Tracking. If all the PCs have Tracking, then certainly a few NPCs can have it. Among the NPCs, are there any hunters? Any scouts for the militia? These guys will have Tracking, and if they know they might be followed, they can counter-Track. So the PCs Tracking have to do a Quick Contest...

I keep mentioning Observation, because presumably while following the enemy, the PCs are looking to see if they'll be ambushed? Because an enemy who knows he's being followed may decide to sit down somewhere ebhind a log and then spring on the PC as he wanders along.

"Okay, I Track him. I got a roll of 9 out of my skill of 14."
"You follow the clear footprints of the guy for about a hundred yards, where they go into a dense part of the forest. Keep following?"
"Sure."
"The forest becomes denser around you, it's hard to see more than about five yards ahead. The prints are still clear on the ground."
"I keep following him!"
"Okay, make an Observation check."
"What? Damn, no skill in that... er, default... Per-5... My Perception is 12, so skill is 7, bugger. I rolled 10. Failed by 3."
"So his Stealth roll was 9 out of his skill of 10, but his effective skill was +2 because of the dense terrain. His margin of success was 3, your margin of failure was 3. You follow the tracks to a log. You see that the moss has been disturbed by his stepping on it. While you are peering at the torn moss, he stands up in front of you, and jabs at you with his sword."
"Can I dodge?"
"No, you are surprised."
(much player whining later)
"Alright, since his Stealth beat your Observation by a total of 6, you can Dodge at -6."
(much player whining later)
"Alright, okay, you can count the roll as having used your Perception instead. Still, 10 out of 12, that's success by only 2, and his success was by 3, so you have -1 to Dodge."

However generous or stingy you want to be as a GM, NPCs can do more than simply run away. They can counter-track, and they can wait in ambush. Even without any modifiers to the PCs' Tracking rolls due to density of terrain, the counter-track and the ambush are very effective in dealing with characters with high Tracking ability.

P.S. I just added Damon to MSN IM. I think not enough of us use these things. There could be more gaming - online! Or at least more idle chat, which is fun ;)
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Old 07-20-2006, 08:03 PM   #7
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Default Re: Is Tracking too easy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by roguebfl
no according to B172 "Experts: Once your skill level reaches 14 additional levels don't improve your odds of success much."
i get your point. however.. in most games with starting point totals over 150.. which is a lot, i'm gonna bet a whole lot of skills are at 13-14. I'm talking game terms, not whole-world terms.
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Old 07-20-2006, 08:47 PM   #8
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Default Re: Is Tracking too easy?

How empty is your "wilderness"?

Medieval Europe was pretty populous. Pre-modern footwear is usually impossible to differentiate. Even today, if criminals wore old leather dress shoes instead of sports shoes forensics would just give up on footprints.

Tracking may not slow one down when hiking at 3mph, those being pursued have no such restriction. When I am trying to make time, I walk ten paces, jog ten paces, even with full pack (~45lbs) I can go all day and make 6mph.

Similarly tracking takes good light. If we say hypothetically that dawn is at 6am and dusk 6pm, light suitable for tracking may exist from 7am to 5pm. If I am trying to make good time I rise at 5am and camp at 7pm.

How often does it rain?

It often seems that rain only falls in RPG's when it is for dramatic effect.

I am suffering in rather a warm spot at the moment and it seems like there is a thunderstorm every afternoon. Today's had a little hail for variety. One would have to be tracking an elephant to have a trail to follow after that.
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Old 07-20-2006, 10:17 PM   #9
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Default Re: Is Tracking too easy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by damon
i get your point. however.. in most games with starting point totals over 150.. which is a lot, i'm gonna bet a whole lot of skills are at 13-14. I'm talking game terms, not whole-world terms.
Yes but those are the exceptional people who are in many ways exceptional because they make the difficult look easy in comparison to those around them. Experts should after all look and play like experts in their chossen fields of study, and one of the nice things about urps overall is that you can actually start and build a lot of character concepts for reasonable amounts of points right from the start instead of having to wait for upteen levels, prestige clases and core class changes before you get their.

Over all I would say many uses of several different skills should be relatively easy to use at the official "expert" level, especially when you consider how much of a point sink it is for a normal stat 10 character to reach expert level in even one skill especially looking at only 25-75 points to play with.

Also keep in mind that if you really dont want pcs following someone for plot reason their is nearly always alterntive methods of travel that make tracking virtually useless, travel via boats, flying, or teleportation would only allow them to track the target the target until their mode of locomotion changed.
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Old 07-20-2006, 10:27 PM   #10
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Default Re: Is Tracking too easy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nosforontu
Also keep in mind that if you really dont want pcs following someone for plot reason their is nearly always alterntive methods of travel that make tracking virtually useless, travel via boats, flying, or teleportation would only allow them to track the target the target until their mode of locomotion changed.
Not to mention, if the pursued did encounter a river, they could cross it, make a few footprints headed away from it on the other end, back up into those same prints back into the river, and swim/wade downstream (or even upstream), throwing off any attempt to track them that way. And rivers do tend to throw off scent-based tracking, as well.
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