04-17-2013, 07:52 PM | #11 | ||
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Midwest, USA
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Re: [DF] Solving for N
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Eventually, someone will post a link to a good thread that put a lot of thought and effort into this process. Unfortunately, I don't have the link nor remember enough of its contents to perform a good search. Quote:
I have no idea how the Pathfinder/D20 Challenge Rating works in practice, either. There are complaints, I've read. However, the point is those respective designers have such a mechanic. We now have something of the equivalent, something sorely lacking until MotFD, what I consider the other, more important half of DFM1. I may never run the adventure, but Lord knows I'm using everything else in the book.
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04-17-2013, 07:53 PM | #12 |
Ceci n'est pas une tag.
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Vancouver, WA (Portland Metro)
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Re: [DF] Solving for N
One adventure series in D20 (I believe it was the Bluffside series/setting?) had various modifiers to selected encounters.
So, for instance, if you had a multitude of divine-power characters (clerics, paladins), an encounter with undead may end up shifting from zombies to ghouls. Or if you had trap-springer types (rogues, bards), the locks on a door may be masterwork instead of common. Not every encounter. Not even half of them, IIRC. Still, it gave the DM a chance to make things challenging, and to let the players shine (e.g., the party would have died against the ghouls, but the Turn Undead managed to keep one away long enough to win).
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04-17-2013, 08:03 PM | #13 | |||
Wielder of Smart Pants
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
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Re: [DF] Solving for N
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http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=73190 http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=71254 Counter argument: http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=71271 Quote:
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04-17-2013, 08:10 PM | #14 |
Join Date: Jul 2006
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Re: [DF] Solving for N
When we started to play D&D for first level characters N Goblins would be a fair encounter, N Orcs tense, and N Gnolls a TPK. By the time we stopped 2N Bugbears, N Ogres, or N/2 Hill Giants were challenging but fair. Player skill is everything.
And D&D is much easier to balance than GURPS. There are no roleplay reasons not to optimise your characters for combat. The largest variable is equipment. |
04-17-2013, 09:03 PM | #15 |
Join Date: Mar 2010
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Re: [DF] Solving for N
And I think you gave a fine starting point - I was just noting that you still need to use those basic adjustment tactics to fine tune things, especially when (as the OP is) you are unsure of the right course. Even with the DF templates there is so much variability in party composition and player/GM skill for there to be any "one size fits all" rule in GURPS. So start with N... but keep an option for 2N or 0.5N if your players need more/less challenge.
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04-17-2013, 09:33 PM | #16 |
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
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Re: [DF] Solving for N
Given that N will be variable even for the exact same party depending on the situation, I suspect it's easier to game things out crudely than to try to come up with a formula. You'll miss things the PCs can do, and the PCs might miss things that are obvious to you, but it will get crudely representative results.
Or, you can be old-school and not worry about whether the fights are balanced ;) |
04-17-2013, 09:36 PM | #17 |
Wielder of Smart Pants
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
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Re: [DF] Solving for N
I know it is absolutely no help to anybody, but in GURPS I just do what makes sense. If enemy troops patrol in platoons then the PCs will encounter platoons. If the rumor is that a family of five trolls live in the cave, there will be five trolls in the cave. If a fight is especially easy or hard for the PCs, I'm not overly concerned as it's the PC's choices that led them there.
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04-17-2013, 09:46 PM | #18 | |
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Portsmouth, VA, USA
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Re: [DF] Solving for N
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I've also found that when I plan for a encounter to go pear-shaped (and it does) the players tend to like it even more if they've mostly succeeded in previous combats. After all heroes don't win all the time why should they?
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04-17-2013, 10:21 PM | #19 | |
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Seattle
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Re: [DF] Solving for N
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It's way more fun to occasionally decide "heck, this is beyond us -- let's sell the info and do something better with our time". I've had parties in and out of DF style games do this. Fine by me. It's more interesting and leads to good roleplaying possibilities. Also, when you're running a campaign in a point buy system, or even a level system with lots of choices at higher levels, the characters diverge enough that gauging encounter difficulty becomes more and more of an art than a science. So N becomes "fuzzier" in general the more choices PCs have to choose from. In practice, even with templates, this happens immediately in GURPS, but will happen eventually in any system that grants lots of choices to characters as they advance.
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04-17-2013, 11:13 PM | #20 | |
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
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Re: [DF] Solving for N
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