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Old 12-10-2017, 10:15 AM   #11
trooper6
 
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Default Re: What will you not allow?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
For one thing, if the the police ask you if you are committing fraud "Yes, and" isn't typically helpful. :)
Police: "Are you committing fraud?"
Suspect: "Yes, and you are also in on it with me!"
Police: "No I'm not, and you are under arrest."
Suspect: "Yes, I'm under arrest, but what is this? You are driving me to our secret hideaway instead of the police station."
Police: "No, I'm not."
Suspect: "Um...I don't think you know how 'yes, and' is supposed to work."
Police: "You were trying to use Performance on me and not Acting, sorry."
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Old 12-10-2017, 10:16 AM   #12
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Default Re: What will you not allow?

Back when I was running Whispers (the THS campaign that trooper6 played in), we had one player who was doing what I think is called immersive play: That is, he was focused on entering into the mentality of his character and experiencing the game world and its events as his character would. This wasn't readily apparent to me, and I think not to the other players; what we saw was that his character seemed kind of withdrawn and uncommunicative, and occasionally did inexplicable things. Then one day he posted on livejournal about how his character saw the game events, and it was way different from anything I had imagined; it showed that his character actually had an inner life and a worldview.

So I suggested to him that, while it was fine for him to be figuring those things out for his character, it would help if he also did things to make the rest of us aware of her viewpoint. I didn't ask for idiot lecture; I just suggested that he give her facial expressions, or short comments, or that he occasionally describe her reactions. I take that to be one part of "acting": thinking about what you can say or do to give your audience (the other players) a window into your character's soul.

For me, now, that's very natural. I'm thinking about how my character would react to a situation or event, but I'm also thinking about what the other players would think of a given action or line of dialogue; I'm a layer or two back from the visible surface of my character's actions. But for just that reason, I play a character who is mostly reacting directly, rather than calculating what to so, so that I don't have to keep separate track of what I'm calculating about the reactions of the other players and what my character is calculating about the reactions of the other fictional people in the game world. I suppose someone more gifted than I am might be able to think on both tracks at once.
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Old 12-10-2017, 10:31 AM   #13
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Default Re: What will you not allow?

Quote:
Originally Posted by trooper6 View Post
Police: "Are you committing fraud?"
Suspect: "Yes, and you are also in on it with me!"
Police: "No I'm not, and you are under arrest."
Suspect: "Yes, I'm under arrest, but what is this? You are driving me to our secret hideaway instead of the police station."
Police: "No, I'm not."
Suspect: "Um...I don't think you know how 'yes, and' is supposed to work."
Police: "You were trying to use Performance on me and not Acting, sorry."
Now that's just hilarious.
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Old 12-10-2017, 12:08 PM   #14
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Default Re: What will you not allow?

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Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
Performance is great when you're reading for a part, but most roleplayers I know don't script their dialog . . . they come up with it on the spur of the moment, and they usually do so by imagining what their persona would say.
I do. In the back of my head, almost all the time, I'm running conversations, potential interactions, 'what if' scenarios for my characters, to plot out how best to have them deal with those things when they happen.

But I've got social skill problems... so I do that for myself as well. Every-time I meet knew people that I plan to have long term friendships with, a part of my imagination landscape becomes devoted to playing out potential conversations, etc. This way I can react at a more appropriate time-frame with people instead of sitting there looking like 'the weirdo' (for several seconds to a few minutes too long) puzzling out what sort of response is required.

I mean that last bit still happens occasionally, but I've usually plotted out some sort of response even if it isn't 100% correct so I tend to default to those instead... and then once I've reasoned out what should be said, just pull ye olde "Oh, you meant blah, blah, blah, sorry I misheard you" and give a better response if it seems necessary.



Quote:
Originally Posted by trooper6 View Post
Police: "Are you committing fraud?"
Suspect: "Yes, and you are also in on it with me!"
Police: "No I'm not, and you are under arrest."
Suspect: "Yes, I'm under arrest, but what is this? You are driving me to our secret hideaway instead of the police station."
Police: "No, I'm not."
Suspect: "Um...I don't think you know how 'yes, and' is supposed to work."
Police: "You were trying to use Performance on me and not Acting, sorry."
All the upvotes. All of them.



Quote:
Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
So I suggested to him that, while it was fine for him to be figuring those things out for his character, it would help if he also did things to make the rest of us aware of her viewpoint. I didn't ask for idiot lecture; I just suggested that he give her facial expressions, or short comments, or that he occasionally describe her reactions. I take that to be one part of "acting": thinking about what you can say or do to give your audience (the other players) a window into your character's soul.
Having done PbP and LARPs has really hammered this lesson home for me. But then I also took a lot of Drama, Acting, and Performance courses in HS, so it's natural to 'slip into the persona' when I gaming.

Or rather it became natural. For the first almost decade I RPed, it was mostly just roll-play with hints of role-play starting to nudge out. Playing freeform games helped to bring that out as well.
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Old 12-10-2017, 12:31 PM   #15
johndallman
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Default Re: What will you not allow?

Quote:
Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
... he was focused on entering into the mentality of his character and experiencing the game world and its events as his character would.
That is what I want to do and usually manage, these days. Experiencing situations that I never could in real life, through the perceptions of someone different from me, is a big part of the attraction of role-playing for me.

I tend to have a fairly clear mind's-eye view of what's going on, as in I can actually "see" it, in much the same detail as visual memories. I'm very aware that this may not match what the GM imagines, so I'm very fond of clear descriptions, and will ask questions to clarify.
Quote:
... suggested that he give her facial expressions, or short comments, or that he occasionally describe her reactions. I take that to be one part of "acting": thinking about what you can say or do to give your audience (the other players) a window into your character's soul.
I find that reasonably easy, by saying what the character is doing and thinking. The people I play with seem to be able to keep track of when I'm speaking as the character, or describing character actions and thoughts, or asking questions about what the character can sense. Or making a comment as a player. Or asking who would like more tea ...
Quote:
... but I'm also thinking about what the other players would think of a given action or line of dialogue; I'm a layer or two back from the visible surface of my character's actions.
I don't consciously do that level. I'm sufficiently inside the character's head that I'm getting their thinking about what the other characters are saying, and I use that.

I don't use florid description, and don't really like it when other people do. Clarity is really important to me. I'm also much more interested in outcomes than "looking good" doing things, because my models of story are based on prose fiction, rather than moving-picture media.
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Old 12-10-2017, 12:33 PM   #16
Mark Skarr
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Default Re: What will you not allow?

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Originally Posted by Varyon View Post
Performance is for taking rehearsed lines/actions/etc and making them look convincing. Acting is about convincingly behaving the way the character you are portraying would act when confronted with an unscripted situation. The latter lends itself better to both outright lying and improvisation than does the former, but the former is typically easier. The Roleplaying specialty of Acting sort of takes the lying part out of it, and makes it more casual, which in turn makes it easier.
I completely disagree. Nothing in the skill says it doesn't cover improvisation. It is for entertainment not deception. As others, and myself, have discussed. Memorization of lines is not covered or discussed at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormcrow View Post
So it comes as a bit of a surprise to hear that entertaining the other players with one's "role-play" is supposedly a goal of the activity. That sounds exactly like Performance. I've always had trouble understanding why people go on about "role-play, not roll-play," and this may answer that: you're trying to Perform, and no one is entertained by your making tactical decisions and rolling dice to see how they turn out.
For some of us, it's about shared storytelling, and that is entertainment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
Wait, so improv is Acting, not Performance?
That's what Kromm's saying, but I totally disagree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
It's not how I'd run it.
Ditto.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trooper6 View Post
Acting has long been established as the skill to use to make being thing you are someone you are not in real life over time. Spies need Acting, Grifters need Acting. Acting isn't about understanding blocking or gesturing with your upstage hand or hitting your mark when on a set or doing what audiences like to see on stage or screen. It is about having people really, really believe your lie.
I agree.
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Old 12-10-2017, 12:46 PM   #17
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Default Re: What will you not allow?

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Originally Posted by Mark Skarr View Post
That's what Kromm's saying, but I totally disagree.
Is he? I am not sure that I understood, which is why I am asking.
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Old 12-10-2017, 12:56 PM   #18
Mark Skarr
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Default Re: What will you not allow?

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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
Is he? I am not sure that I understood, which is why I am asking.
Well, he, specifically said this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
I chose it because it's one of the three official go-to skills for developing a persona: Acting, Disguise, and Mimicry (Speech). Performance is great when you're reading for a part, but most roleplayers I know don't script their dialog . . . they come up with it on the spur of the moment, and they usually do so by imagining what their persona would say.
Which strongly implies that he feels Performance is only for following a script. So, per his statement: ad libs, improv, and role-playing is Acting.

Many of us disagree.
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Old 12-10-2017, 01:28 PM   #19
whswhs
 
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Default Re: What will you not allow?

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Originally Posted by johndallman View Post
I'm also much more interested in outcomes than "looking good" doing things, because my models of story are based on prose fiction, rather than moving-picture media.
That's true for me as well; in fact I've had conversations with writers whose model of fiction is "film a movie in my head, and then write about what I see," and I find that deeply alien. But in a novel, you don't see the expression on the character's face, or hear the tone of their voice; you get the description and dialogue that the writer provides, and possibly stream of consciousness, or an omniscient author account of what the character is thinking. And I tend to view the player as a co-author who needs to provide that same kind of verbal description for the things that the other players need to know.
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Old 12-10-2017, 01:29 PM   #20
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Default Re: What will you not allow?

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Originally Posted by Mark Skarr View Post
Well, he, specifically said this:

Which strongly implies that he feels Performance is only for following a script. So, per his statement: ad libs, improv, and role-playing is Acting.

Many of us disagree.
Yes, which is why I am asking for clarification...
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