Quick question on geases

[Rocket Man]

Originally Posted by Acolyte

I am pretty sure that only Lilim can add a Geas to themselves at will, and only Lilim can turn the promise of a non-Lilim into a Geas (effectively, they are using their resonance but on a non-resisting subject). As with anything else in the game, Superiors, powerful Ethereals, rare relics, Interventions, and GM fiat are the exceptions.

Man, I love that GM Fiat. Drives so much nicer than the GM Audi ...

[alexondria]

Originally Posted by DAlillama

If Geases are meant to be Lilim-specific, then the Discord description on p. 88 should be changed. The segment:"A Geas is the only Discord that angels do not see as a sign of weakness, but it does imply that a character can't be held to a normal promise." That sentence actually has a lot of rather strange implications, including the idea that Geases are fairly common in Heaven. If Geases only come from Lilim, then an angel with a Geas would be automatically suspected of consorting with demons.

well they could also come from bright lilim.

[ladyarcana55]

Sorry to bring an old thread back but an interesting thought came to mind. It may have been addressed already but i can't remember seeing it.

Mary is a Lilim that has a geas/4 on Stanley. Mary uses that geas to have him steal some money and bring it to her.

Sheila also has a geas/4 on Stanley and she activates it and tells him to bring it to her instead.

Two geases of the same power have been activated at roughly the same time and they both have conflicting favors.

What happens? Does one cancel out the other?

What if one were a more powerful geas than the other? Would the stronger one outweigh the other? For instance, if Sheila had a geas/6 to Mary's geas/4, how would that affect things?

[Dalillama]

Originally Posted by ladyarcana55

Sorry to bring an old thread back but an interesting thought came to mind. It may have been addressed already but i can't remember seeing it.

Mary is a Lilim that has a geas/4 on Stanley. Mary uses that geas to have him steal some money and bring it to her.

Sheila also has a geas/4 on Stanley and she activates it and tells him to bring it to her instead.

Two geases of the same power have been activated at roughly the same time and they both have conflicting favors.

What happens? Does one cancel out the other?

What if one were a more powerful geas than the other? Would the stronger one outweigh the other? For instance, if Sheila had a geas/6 to Mary's geas/4, how would that affect things?

Poor Stanley's life is about to get very painful, I'd say. with 2 equal Geasas, Give the Lilm a Contested Will roll, winner gets the money, while in the other case, the higher Geas gets it. In either case, though Stanley's still suffering for whichever one he didn't fulfill.

[ladyarcana55]

Originally Posted by DAlillama

Poor Stanley's life is about to get very painful, I'd say. with 2 equal Geasas, Give the Lilm a Contested Will roll, winner gets the money, while in the other case, the higher Geas gets it. In either case, though Stanley's still suffering for whichever one he didn't fulfill.

Wow...

I wonder if it is possible to cancel out a geas...

[Archangel Beth]

Originally Posted by ladyarcana55

Mary is a Lilim that has a geas/4 on Stanley. Mary uses that geas to have him steal some money and bring it to her.
Sheila also has a geas/4 on Stanley and she activates it and tells him to bring it to her instead.

This is called "Geas-conflict" or "dissonant if you do, dissonant if you don't." (See Superiors: Lilith, p. 35.)

Is Stanley a human? If so, the GM -- if feeling kind -- may allow the second invocation of a Geas hook to have a bonus to the human's roll to resist it, because it isn't just "steal money, bring it to person," it's "steal money, bring it to person, take damage."

If Stanley is not a human, then the GM may or may not decide that the definite "dissonant if you do, dissonant if you don't" aspect will require a higher-level Geas: probably a Geas/5 (see Superiors: Lilith, p. 38). Depending on weasel-wording, a Geas/4 might suffice ("risks dissonance").

Stanley, assuming he gets hit with two Geases like this, may try to loophole them. If both Mary and Sheila said to steal the same money, and give that same money to them... Did they think to say he couldn't steal it back? So he could get the money, give it to Mary, steal it from Mary (or promise her another Geas to get it back, or whatever), and then give it to Sheila. (Or vice versa, depending on who was more convenient.) Even more simple is if Mary and Sheila just want him to steal X money, and then give them money equal to X -- if he can get twice as much, he can fulfill both obligations.

[ladyarcana55]

I only just realized...

Originally Posted by DAlillama

With 2 equal Geases, Give the Lilm a Contested Will roll, winner gets the money, while in the other case, the higher Geas gets it.

So...what happens to the geas that got "superceded"?

In the first case (where they both have a geas/4), in a contested Will roll, what happens to the loser's geas?

And if one has a higher geas than the other, (geas/6 vs geas/4) what happens to the lower geas?

I understand that Stanley is going to suffer regardless, but I am unclear what happens to the geas that lost out.

Does the question make sense?

[Archangel Beth]

(Since you can't supersede a geas in canon, you get to decide, probably. O:> )

[ladyarcana55]

Ooh! Making me think!

low blow...

[Archangel Beth]

It's why I get called Evil! O:D